Political Thread

[Sandbar]

A lot will have to do with how the trial plays out, if the GOP cant keep Bolton and others off the witness stand I think Trump loses for sure.....right now according to many polls 50% of the nation wants him removed from office...that is significant, the swing in independents favoring removal over the last few weeks has been big with over half of independents polled now supporting removal...So Trump would need people that currently support removing him from office to change their minds and actually vote to keep him over someone like Biden.....that's a tall order IMO.

You have the left base pegged all wrong.....the Dem turnout in 2020 will be huge regardless of the candidate as removing Trump is their goal....look at how badly the Dems crushed the GOP on turnout in 2018 and that tells you all you needs to know about how motivated the Dems are for 2020.

You know why 2018 turned out the way it did man. Its a midterm election and the party in power takes a hit in at least one of the chambers. To say the Dems crushed the GOP is just shortsighted. This "Blue Wave" that was supposed to overtake the house and senate didn't occur. They didn't come even remotely close to the senate and they don't have very much to brag about from the house side. Trump's base will be out in force and the independent vote will break for Trump despite your hardline objections. Sorry but you are going to lose in your efforts no matter how much google cut and paste you do. Just hang in there 5 more years and if you don't self combust you can shoot for the stars with your moderate whatever that will magically do something about debt spending and all that other stuff "true conservatives" fawn over......Right now the number 5 is the only math that means anything because that's how many more years of Trump you have

 

[Shaggy]

Get Trump out now and give enough time for Kasich, Haley, or someone else before it is too late? Or even Pence if he's not also going down?

If the arguments about continuing the judiciary appts rolling and the oppurtunity to get 1 more scotus pick then do you need trump who may lose or go with pence and win in a landslide?

 

[Shaggy]

Biden?? C-mon man. He doesn’t even know where he is at half the time much less keeping his lips and hands off of women?‍

This doesn't matter anymore. Trump grabs them by the.....well you know and that's fine with his supporters or they're atleast willing to look the other way. The right is not allowed to criticize anyone on that topic. That's the new trump precedent.

 

[Sandbar]

This doesn't matter anymore. Trump grabs them by the.....well you know and that's fine with his supporters or they're atleast willing to look the other way. The right is not allowed to criticize anyone on that topic. That's the new trump precedent.

You can not be fine with the things he has done in the past but still support his presidential efforts. I think that's where the disconnect is when it comes to people who cling to the moral high ground with Donald Trump.

 

[Sandbar]

If the arguments about continuing the judiciary appts rolling and the oppurtunity to get 1 more scotus pick then do you need trump who may lose or go with pence and win in a landslide?

So you think those of us who applaud the direction of the country under Trump are sitting back waiting for Mike Pence to take over? I think he is a great VP but make no mistake. Trump didn't win because of Mike Pence being on the ticket

 

[Shaggy]

The argument made by dershowitz yesterday is sickening. It's literally the end of our democracy as we have known it if this allowed to become the precedent.

Any candidate/president believing their election/reelection is in the national interest(that's every one running) can do whatever they like to get elected. That's dangerous as it gets and at this point if allowed the stand is a huge nail in our republics coffin.

 

[Shaggy]

You can not be fine with the things he has done in the past but still support his presidential efforts. I think that's where the disconnect is when it comes to people who cling to the moral high ground with Donald Trump.

Some things you can overlook and some things you should not. Sexual assualt is one that should not.

 

[Sandbar]

The argument made by dershowitz yesterday is sickening. It's literally the end of our democracy as we have known it if this allowed to become the precedent.

Any candidate/president believing their election/reelection is in the national interest(that's every one running) can do whatever they like to get elected. That's dangerous as it gets and at this point if allowed the stand is a huge nail in our republics coffin.

So I take it you are a constitutional scholar? I have heard the opinion of lots of people on this. Most of them pretty smart. It seems to come down to just how much you like or dislike Donald Trump but the end of our Republic? You have to be kidding me with that nonsense.....

 

[Shaggy]

So I take it you are a constitutional scholar? I have heard the opinion of lots of people on this. Most of them pretty smart. It seems to come down to just how much you like or dislike Donald Trump but the end of our Republic? You have to be kidding me with that nonsense.....

No. He literally argued that breaking the law is fine as long as you believe it's in the national interest to secure reelection. An opponent beating you? Seek help from foreign govt all you want.....dont get enough dirt........throw him in jail because it's in the nations best interest.

If Obama had done ANY of the things trump is yall would demand removal and declare him a dictator.

The Republican party is becoming a disgrace.

 

[Sandbar]

Some things you can overlook and some things you should not. Sexual assualt is one that should not.

Understood. We had a sexual predator in office for 8 years in Bill Clinton. We had a crook from Chicago for 8 years in Obama. Amazingly the Republic survived them both. I feel fairly confident we are going to survive Trump in one piece as well

 

[Shaggy]

Understood. We had a sexual predator in office for 8 years in Bill Clinton. We had a crook from Chicago for 8 years in Obama. Amazingly the Republic survived them both. I feel fairly confident we are going to survive Trump in one piece as well

Yeah Clinton and Obama were both heavily flawed and made many mistakes. None of which tried to turn themselves into kings.

Take a minute and think about what dershowitz is really arguing and then imagine that argument being in support of a democrat and what you would think of that argument then.

 

[Sandbar]

No. He literally argued that breaking the law is fine as long as you believe it's in the national interest to secure reelection. An opponent beating you? Seek help from foreign govt all you want.....dont get enough dirt........throw him in jail because it's in the nations best interest.

If Obama had done ANY of the things trump is yall would demand removal and declare him a dictator.

The Republican party is becoming a disgrace.

Obama was at the heart of many shady things including Benghazi were I lost a former comrade. He wasn't impeached for it. I couldn't stand the man but he was my CIC. I had to at least respect that and I did....I get that you despise Donald Trump. Understood. But to suggest this is the end of our Republic because he may or may not be punished in line with your hatred is petty. The people will decide in November including you

 

[Sandbar]

Yeah Clinton and Obama were both heavily flawed and made many mistakes. None of which tried to turn themselves into kings.

Take a minute and think about what dershowitz is really arguing and then imagine that argument being in support of a democrat and what you would think of that argument then.

A king? My god man you have lost it....seriously. Im certainly not going to make any attempt to pull you and the few others here back from the ledge. Hell just go ahead and jump

 

[Flurry]

No. He literally argued that breaking the law is fine as long as you believe it's in the national interest to secure reelection. An opponent beating you? Seek help from foreign govt all you want.....dont get enough dirt........throw him in jail because it's in the nations best interest.

If Obama had done ANY of the things trump is yall would demand removal and declare him a dictator.

The Republican party is becoming a disgrace.

Believe me....Barry O. did some "funny stuff" while in office....It just hasn't been brought to light yet, but I think some of it will after we get through with "the show" being put on now....Also, he was the KING at exerting his "Executive Privilege"!! Also, remember his hot mic conversation with Medvedev??? Something along the lines of Barry having "more flexibility" to negotiate with Putin after the election....Nothing to see here, right???

 

[snowlover91]

No. He literally argued that breaking the law is fine as long as you believe it's in the national interest to secure reelection. An opponent beating you? Seek help from foreign govt all you want.....dont get enough dirt........throw him in jail because it's in the nations best interest.

If Obama had done ANY of the things trump is yall would demand removal and declare him a dictator.

The Republican party is becoming a disgrace.

The proper context and line of reasoning in Dershowitz's argument has been overlooked by the news media. They simply took his one quote out of the context it was set in which is misleading. Yes, he should have been a bit more concise with his wording but the context makes it clear what he was trying to say (and it's not what you are or the news media are alleging).

"What these breathless accounts of Dershowitz’s words have in common is just how wrong they are. Let’s look at the quote in question. He says, “If the president does something that he thinks will help him get elected, in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.” The context here matters a lot, and in fairness Dershowitz could have been a bit clearer. In fact, he did clarify his remarks in the evening session of senators’ questions.

Prior to this selection of his statements, Dershowitz laid out three types of motives the president could have had for his actions. First, one purely and solely concerned with the national interest, second one in which his motive also includes his electoral interests, and third one in which personal gain is his only motivation. In the quote in question, he was talking directly about that second possibility, which he would later describe as “mixed motives.”

This is extremely important because Dershowitz is predicating his argument that the president may act in the interest of his own electoral chances but only if he believes those actions to be in the broader national interest. Dershowitz is not saying that the president could kill a political rival and it wouldn’t be impeachable if he thought that killing was in the national interest. First of all, murder is a crime, and there is no crime alleged in the impeachment, which lies at the heart of Dershowitz’s broader constitutional argument.

What Dershowitz is saying is that when a president is faced with a lawful policy choice that may benefit him politically, he is not barred from making that choice on the basis that it could help him. Politicians do this all the time." Source

In essence his argument is that Trump was acting in public interest to root out corruption in Ukraine before releasing aid so that the funds would be used appropriately. The fact that the Biden's would be involved and Trump could benefit politically as well would fall under the "mixed motive" view he had been discussing within the context of his argument. Keep in mind Trump's defense team is arguing that what he did was lawful and at worst one could say he had mixed motives in his choices to withhold the funding like he did. Whether one agrees with that position is another story, but this is the line of argument that Dershowitz was pursuing.

 

[ForsythSnow]

A king? My god man you have lost it....seriously. Im certainly not going to make any attempt to pull you and the few others here back from the ledge. Hell just go ahead and jump

Since when does having a different opinion make people who disagree insane? You're starting to cross the line a bit. Nobody here is insane unless you believe an absurd conspiracy theory, which I don't thing really any fall under.

 

[Sandbar]

Since when does having a different opinion make people who disagree insane? You're starting to cross the line a bit. Nobody here is insane unless you believe an absurd conspiracy theory, which I don't thing really any fall under.

I didn't call anybody insane! And yes I know everybody has a differing opinion

 

[ForsythSnow]

I didn't call anybody insane! And yes I know everybody has a differing opinion

Saying he's lost it is pretty close to it, as is saying people who disagree are near a cliff and that we should just jump.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

Where is Bolton??
Cant he find someone with a microphone that will let him speak?

Line em all up. BOLTON,WHISTLEBLOWER,SCHIFF,BIDEN DUO. Dont run scared , if you really want the truth,the whole truth, why what when how ,genesis of this whole narrative. Which is what it is, a narrative by the left.

The Democrats have had,called 17 witness"s in the house. You no how many the Republicans called. 0. House mgr's could have called a 100+. Now mysteriously they want the senate to do their job. Lol.

Again, where is Bolton today? ? Im gonna laugh so hard when this boomerrangs right back on the left, just like it has everytime before.

And call the ICIG Michael Atkinson. His testimony is still being held....

 

[snowlover91]

Haven’t seen this posted anywhere but this is interesting. Looks like the Republican won by 16% despite all the money and endorsements the democrats poured into it.

GOP wins closely watched Texas special election

Republicans won handily a closely watched special election Tuesday to keep hold of a suburban Houston district that President Donald Trump won easily four years ago, fending off a national blitz by Democrats in a Texas legislative race. The victory by Republican Gary Gates, who put more than...

news.yahoo.com