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Learning Global Warming facts and fiction

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MichaelJ said:
Well there is this, if you believe in actual numbers instead of computer model ones. Look closely at the map, I don't see any appreciable mass loss since Sept 1st https://i0.wp.com/4castwidgets.intelliweather.net/enso/wuwt/SMB_map_LA_acc_latest.jpg?ssl=1
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And if you look at the actual temperatures too, including the modeled ones, you'll see they're pretty much below freezing for all the areas except those with ice loss, which are along the coast. Also, we should start to see more gain soon with the coming of winter.
gfs_T2m_nhem_1.png
 
ForsythSnow said:
And if you look at the actual temperatures too, including the modeled ones, you'll see they're pretty much below freezing for all the areas except those with ice loss, which are along the coast. Also, we should start to see more gain soon with the coming of winter.
gfs_T2m_nhem_1.png
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Ok so you knick pic something I said days ago and ignore the article I just posted.


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ForsythSnow said:
Do I have to comment on your post of the article you just posted? Like is there some rule somewhere that says I have to? I was adding to another post, not directly engaging you.
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Nope just looks like you couldn’t find fault with it so you had to go dig something up from way back.


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BHS1975 said:
Nope just looks like you couldn’t find fault with it so you had to go dig something up from way back.


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So you're trying to say I purposefully avoided the article that I didn't even choose to read, because I have other better things to do? And on top of that, you call it dirt to trash something? The way you're treating this is uncalled for, so I advise you to stop acting like what I'm doing isn't right just because I'm not backing what you're posting up.
 
ForsythSnow said:
So you're trying to say I purposefully avoided the article that I didn't even choose to read, because I have other better things to do? And on top of that, you call it dirt to trash something? The way you're treating this is uncalled for.
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Nope I’m saying you don’t want to comment on something if it doesn’t fit your agenda


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BHS1975 said:
Nope I’m saying you don’t want to comment on something if it doesn’t fit your agenda


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Listen, I don't have an agenda. I don't agree fully with either side. I observe things and make my own decisions. You are getting offended over me not commenting on your post. This is silly.
 
ForsythSnow said:
Listen, I don't have an agenda. I don't agree fully with either side. I observe things and make my own decisions. You are getting offended over me not commenting on your post. This is silly.
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I’m not offended just making an observation. And how is there any room for agreement left? The only thing thats not settled is how quickly temps and sea levels rise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay....019/09/greenland-ice-getting-denser-thats-bad




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BHS1975 said:
I’m not offended just making an observation. And how is there any room for agreement left? The only thing thats not settled is how quickly temps and sea levels rise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay....019/09/greenland-ice-getting-denser-thats-bad




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Serious question: In your opinion is it remotely possible that the earth has warmed a couple degrees over the years (I mean 8 billion people, asphalt/cement cities, cars/boats/trains/plains... I get it) and is leveling off without catastrophic results? Or is it a foregone conclusion that all humanity will perish and there's no coming back from it?
 
BHS1975 said:
I’m not offended just making an observation. And how is there any room for agreement left? The only thing thats not settled is how quickly temps and sea levels rise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay....019/09/greenland-ice-getting-denser-thats-bad




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Seriously dude, ..... give it a rest. We all know how you feel. However, everyone deserves the right to voice their opinion without regret. You need to learn how to calmly debate others with an open mind.
 
Cad Wedge NC said:
Seriously dude, ..... give it a rest. We all know how you feel. However, everyone deserves the right to voice their opinion without regret. You need to learn how to calmly debate others with an open mind.
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10-4


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metwannabe said:
Serious question: In your opinion is it remotely possible that the earth has warmed a couple degrees over the years (I mean 8 billion people, asphalt/cement cities, cars/boats/trains/plains... I get it) and is leveling off without catastrophic results? Or is it a foregone conclusion that all humanity will perish and there's no coming back from it?
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It may not perish but the change in climate will become increasingly disruptive and uncertain as more unseen feedbacks may be triggered.




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BHS1975 said:
It may not perish but the change in climate will become increasingly disruptive and uncertain as more unseen feedbacks may be triggered.
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But also keep in mind that not all effects would be bad: greener earth/bigger crops quite possible, fewer deaths and less inconvenience from cold/winter storms, lower heating bills/less energy needed for heating, etc.

Also, some of these unseen feedbacks could conceivably reverse a good portion of the warming for all we know.
 
BHS1975 said:
It may not perish but the change in climate will become increasingly disruptive and uncertain as more unseen feedbacks may be triggered.




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This seems like a reasonable post and at least throws a nod to the speculative nature of the whole thing. The truth is, there is probably much more we don't know about this than what we do know.

Denying humans play any role is just as foolish as unequivocally predicting the demise of the planet. The real issue to get at is what can realistically be done? And so far, not a lot of realism seems to be finding its way into the debate
 
GaWx said:
But also keep in mind that not all effects would be bad: greener earth/bigger crops quite possible, fewer deaths and less inconvenience from cold/winter storms, lower heating bills/less energy needed for heating, etc.

Also, some of these unseen feedbacks could conceivably reverse a good portion of the warming for all we know.
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basic physics ... action ---> reaction ...
 
Look at how warm it now is in the Arctic relative to long term averages: the pattern of near normal summers to very warm autumns continues unabated so far:

265D6DDA-5916-4813-AA10-CB1A5756EF3A.png
 
Larry,
I'll toss this in there for short term, except I have to be in Tampa that day ...

2019100712_CON_GFS_SFC_TEMP_IMAGE_264.gif
 
BHS1975 said:
It wouldn’t take munch and it seems we are finding all these new ways in which the ice is melting faster then we thought.
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But does ice melt mean the oceans will rise with ALL the water? Wouldn't warming also produce more clouds or some heavy precip over land and push some of that there too? Maybe there are more factors than "the water goes to the ocean and we will flood tomorrow" and the full picture isn't clear.
 
ForsythSnow said:
But does ice melt mean the oceans will rise with ALL the water? Wouldn't warming also produce more clouds or some heavy precip over land and push some of that there too? Maybe there are more factors than "the water goes to the ocean and we will flood tomorrow" and the full picture isn't clear.
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I'm going to wait for the rich to sell their ocean front property for pennies on the dollar. When I see that happening, I'll believe it. Otherwise, this global climate change scare is just a scam to relieve the gullible of their liberty and property. Climate is changing, it always has and always will. We need to let the free market adapt to it and preserve as much personal freedom and property rights as possible.
 
weatherfide said:
I'm going to wait for the rich to sell their ocean front property for pennies on the dollar. When I see that happening, I'll believe it. Otherwise, this global climate change scare is just a scam to relieve the gullible of their liberty and property. Climate is changing, it always has and always will. We need to let the free market adapt to it and preserve as much personal freedom and property rights as possible.
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AGW is already having an effect on property values and will continue to gradually increase over time and would take a while to reach “pennies on the dollar”.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ion-is-changing-miami-real-estate-values.html


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BHS1975 said:
AGW is already having an effect on property values and will continue to gradually increase over time and would take a while to reach “pennies on the dollar”.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ion-is-changing-miami-real-estate-values.html


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Couple of things of note: 1) the Miami area is a blue region, over 60% voted for Hillary, I point this out because obviously more people there would buy into GW and therefore could certainly play a role in the the value of property right on the coast 2) if the world is gonna end in 12 years why is going to take so long for property values to reach pennies on the dollar?
 
metwannabe said:
Couple of things of note: 1) the Miami area is a blue region, over 60% voted for Hillary, I point this out because obviously more people there would buy into GW and therefore could certainly play a role in the the value of property right on the coast 2) if the world is gonna end in 12 years why is going to take so long for property values to reach pennies on the dollar?
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So people with means aren’t buying the global warming, sea rising scare? Why should the rest of us?
 
weatherfide said:
So people with means aren’t buying the global warming, sea rising scare? Why should the rest of us?
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It's so difficult sometimes to completely understand text conversations (maybe it's just me Lol), but are you questioning me or agreeing and asking a rhetorical question? Because I agree with your above post and was only pointing out in a very left leaning region property values may be affected by the scare of sea rise b/c they obviously are influenced by the left agenda.
 
I really don't know what to think about this topic. I think for most of us, when we discuss history, we tend to think of history as our own life cycle and what we've experienced. I know the 80's was a great decade for me, as I love snow and colder temps. We have definitely warmed since then. My grandfather was born in 1907, when the early 90's rolled around, temps were warming already (so it seemed). He would tell me his grandfather would talk about the heat he experienced during his childhood. I imagine where we are at with global temps is not uncharted territory.

We can pollute the planet, we can destroy our ecosystems, we can trash it, we can do a lot of things, however, to cause the temperature to rise to the point of making it uninhabitable seems like a very far stretch to me. Hell, we can't even have a climate change summit without it being cancelled due to ice and snow.
 
Avalanche said:
I really don't know what to think about this topic. I think for most of us, when we discuss history, we tend to think of history as our own life cycle and what we've experienced. I know the 80's was a great decade for me, as I love snow and colder temps. We have definitely warmed since then. My grandfather was born in 1907, when the early 90's rolled around, temps were warming already (so it seemed). He would tell me his grandfather would talk about the heat he experienced during his childhood. I imagine where we are at with global temps is not uncharted territory.

We can pollute the planet, we can destroy our ecosystems, we can trash it, we can do a lot of things, however, to cause the temperature to rise to the point of making it uninhabitable seems like a very far stretch to me. Hell, we can't even have a climate change summit without it being cancelled due to ice and snow.
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I largely agree. But I am open to the fact that I don't know for sure. None of us really do. And when you see money/power get injected as an influencing agent into something like this, it really makes me question, even harder, the validity of it. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that we are affecting our planet or even the temperature of it. But how much? I don't think it is possible to say for sure. Certainly, when someone assures you that they absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt the answer to that question, I immediately become skeptical. I don't even know if it's POSSIBLE to know. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do better. But dire predictions of the world ending and of great calamity have been around forever. We're still here. All that said, we should still do our best to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, manage waste better, and all pitch in to make our environment a better place than it currently is.
 
metwannabe said:
It's so difficult sometimes to completely understand text conversations (maybe it's just me Lol), but are you questioning me or agreeing and asking a rhetorical question? Because I agree with your above post and was only pointing out in a very left leaning region property values may be affected by the scare of sea rise b/c they obviously are influenced by the left agenda.
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I agree, and your observation is astute. I would expect leftists to start the selling pressure in areas they believe will be inundated by sea water. My comment was rhetorical.
 
weatherfide said:
I agree, and your observation is astute. I would expect leftists to start the selling pressure in areas they believe will be inundated by sea water. My comment was rhetorical.
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That's what I thought and you fine sir have vaulted right to the top of my favorite person list (if such a list actually existed). I've been told many things about my opinions/observations over the years but in all my 48 yrs on God's green earth the word astute has never been one of them.
 
Rain Cold said:
I largely agree. But I am open to the fact that I don't know for sure. None of us really do. And when you see money/power get injected as an influencing agent into something like this, it really makes me question, even harder, the validity of it. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that we are affecting our planet or even the temperature of it. But how much? I don't think it is possible to say for sure. Certainly, when someone assures you that they absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt the answer to that question, I immediately become skeptical. I don't even know if it's POSSIBLE to know. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do better. But dire predictions of the world ending and of great calamity have been around forever. We're still here. All that said, we should still do our best to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, manage waste better, and all pitch in to make our environment a better place than it currently is.
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I think the skepticism that you may have is very warranted. We have people that haven't the slightest idea about meteorology or historical climate going for a big money grab that could very well destroy our economy, while the rest of the globe stays largely uninvolved. Those aren't the voices I'd listen to.
 
The CO2 has increased from 270ppm preindustrial to now around 410ppm and climbing. The planet will get warmer as it takes a while to reach equilibrium and won’t do so until decades after the CO2 levels off. The only question remaining is the climate sensitivity to CO2 lvls which we only have paleoclimate data to look at in order to produce models.


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BHS1975 said:
The CO2 has increased from 270ppm preindustrial to now around 410ppm and climbing. The planet will get warmer as it takes a while to reach equilibrium and won’t do so until decades after the CO2 levels off. The only question remaining is the climate sensitivity to CO2 lvls which we only have paleoclimate data to look at in order to produce models.


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I hear that methane is a much stronger greenhouse gas. We should burn all the methane that we can to keep it out of the atmosphere.
 
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