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Wintry Feb. 19-20

NOAA pulling the trigger for some kind of Snow and ice event around here on Tuesday and Wednesday in the discussion....

https://forecast.weather.gov/produc...FC&product=AFD&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1

The primary weather concern during this period should occur between
Wednesday and Thursday as a deepening trough over the Great Lakes
phases with a shortwave tracking along the Gulf Coast. Due to the
nature of this setup (two systems merging with model discrepancies
regarding the timing and speed of both) uncertainty in the forecast
outcome for Georgia increases rapidly after Wednesday. With this
being said, the potential exists for wintry precipitation in north
Georgia if the sizable pool of cold air in the Plains (progged in
the ensembles) can reach Georgia in time phase with moisture moving
north from the Gulf. Another potential outcome would be for moisture
and associated precipitation to move out of Georgia before the
coldest air arrives. This scenario would likely lead to just a few
snow flurries in the mountains. We`ll see how things come together
over the next few days. For right now there has been enough
consistency over the last 6 to 10 runs of the GEFS and EPS to say
that precipitation is likely (>60% chance) between Wednesday and
Thursday. Meanwhile there are enough GEFS and EPS members to warrant
a 20 to 30% chance for impactful wintry weather in the north Georgia
mountains, and a 10 to 20% chance of impactful wintry weather along
and north of Interstate 20. For a graphical depiction of the threat
please see the Probabilistic Winter Storm Severity Index
(wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wwd/wssi/prob_wssi.php).

The other noteworthy aspect of the weather next week should be the
return to below average temperatures. The greatest departures from
average are favored between Wednesday and Friday, and their
magnitude will depend on how strong the push of cold air from the
Plains is. Current GEFS and EPS guidance is maintaining a 7 to 10
degree spread between the 25th and 75th percentile in the
temperature forecast. This suggests lower confidence the exact
forecast temperatures, despite high confidence in the occurrence of
below average temperatures.
 
That was a pretty awesome 06z Euro/EPS run to reverse the overnight trends. The EPS/CMCE/MOGREPS all give the northern upstate 1.5-2 inch snow means. Can't complain about that. Especially when there's hardly any "big dogs" in the mix. Also love seeing the Euro AI being flatter.
 
what i've noticed is that a phase is more probable than our previous systems and that should be factored into predictions... the ceiling is a little higher on this storm. the phase has a larger window. in golf we call this having more green to work with. even the modeled whiffs have that "almost a phase" look to them. also not dealing with some dumb baja low antics is a breath of fresh air- should reduce variability some.

this storm will have a more classic feel a la mid 2010s... we're going to see more posts about "blossoming precip". georgia screw zone in blow. should be a few few days, especially for me, i really like where i'm positioned
That's like Beetlejuice, don't do it again please
 
That was a pretty awesome 06z Euro/EPS run to reverse the overnight trends. The EPS/CMCE/MOGREPS all give the northern upstate 1.5-2 inch snow means. Can't complain about that. Especially when there's hardly any "big dogs" in the mix. Also love seeing the Euro AI being flatter.
Yep. We want this to become a trend/continue and hopefully not a one run blip ala what happened back in our last event with that one crazy 00z set of runs.
ecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-z500_anom-1739512800-1740031200-1740031200-20.gifecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-t850-1739512800-1740031200-1740031200-20.gif
ecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-total_snow_10to1-1739512800-1740031200-1740031200-20.gif
 
what i've noticed is that a phase is more probable than our previous systems and that should be factored into predictions... the ceiling is a little higher on this storm. the phase has a larger window. in golf we call this having more green to work with. even the modeled whiffs have that "almost a phase" look to them. also not dealing with some dumb baja low antics is a breath of fresh air- should reduce variability some.

this storm will have a more classic feel a la mid 2010s... we're going to see more posts about "blossoming precip". georgia screw zone in blow. should be a few few days, especially for me, i really like where i'm positioned
Yeah I agree with you on that. I was just basically saying that there hasn't been a clear trend on the models with the storm track.

But you are certainly right. I've been noting the potential of this period to produce a significant/memorable storm for a while now for the reasons you mentioned. Phasing potential is higher than normal, plenty of cold air is available, and we're not worrying about a SW wave retrograde west instead of kicking east.

I'm hoping we get one of those classic eastern Gulf or southeastern coast lows that bombs and runs up the coast. That's what I'm kind of expecting here.
 
The 06z Euro and even the 06z Euro AI have a much better phase with the southern vort and lead to more precip blossoming later on. Honestly the Euro AI is the dream scenario and i'd assume it's a little underdone on precip totals. But it keeps the precip going until Thursday morning thanks to that southern vort phasing in.

We really need the 06z Euro AI to be right at hr120 and the GFS be wrong. They are vastly different with how the northern stream resolves itself. I'm liking our chances with the AI at hr120 because that's its wheel house. 12z runs will tell us a lot.
 
The 06z Euro and even the 06z Euro AI have a much better phase with the southern vort and lead to more precip blossoming later on. Honestly the Euro AI is the dream scenario and i'd assume it's a little underdone on precip totals. But it keeps the precip going until Thursday morning thanks to that southern vort phasing in.

We really need the 06z Euro AI to be right at hr120 and the GFS be wrong. They are vastly different with how the northern stream resolves itself. I'm like our chances with the AI at hr120 because that's its wheel house. 12z runs will tell us a lot.
I might regret saying this but if the 12z EC AI continues the trend the EC AI has shown for the past 5 runs, then it may be the dream scenario haha. A late bloomer that phases a little more would explode especially from CLT to RDU east. It's walking that way, will it get there?
ecmwf-aifs-all-namer-vort500_z500-1739512800-1740009600-1740009600-20.gifecmwf-aifs-all-se-t850_mslp_prcp6hr-1739512800-1740031200-1740031200-20.gif
 
Yeah I agree with you on that. I was just basically saying that there hasn't been a clear trend on the models with the storm track.

But you are certainly right. I've been noting the potential of this period to produce a significant/memorable storm for a while now for the reasons you mentioned. Phasing potential is higher than normal, plenty of cold air is available, and we're not worrying about a SW wave retrograde west instead of kicking east.

I'm hoping we get one of those classic eastern Gulf or southeastern coast lows that bombs and runs up the coast. That's what I'm kind of expecting here.
i kind of like it when there's no "trend" and moreso a slow but consistent narrowing of the confidence interval and whittling away outlier solutions which we have here. we're squinting at a car in the distance and thinking "that looks like a jeep", it's gotten a little closer, it still looks like a jeep

I think we're going to see some good runs today my friends
 
I might regret saying this but if the 12z EC AI continues the trend the EC AI has shown for the past 5 runs, then it may be the dream scenario haha. A late bloomer that phases a little more would explode especially from CLT to RDU east. It's walking that way, will it get there?
View attachment 168914View attachment 168915

Yes! A couple more cycle ticks SW with the vorts, and that'll essentially be textbook phasing around the Mississippi. Chef's kiss! That nice infusion of the cold northern stream would make up well for the lack of high pressure to the NE. With the anomalous blocking in canada, I'd think there's reason to believe we can keep trending there.
 
IIRC back in the old forum we used to talk about ice storms rarely form this "late" in our meteorlogical winter. It's either rain or snow. I realize we may be dealing with a phase or partial that would change the physics, but something I always remember discussing. overrunning vs miller A.
 
Heights are being pumped more on the 12z Icon vs 6z. Might be going north with a sharper trough??
 
ICON going to be amped...it's so far from any other global at day 4. I don't really pay much attention to the ICOn...except when bored.

trend-icon-2025021412-f108.500hv.na.gif
 
ICON v/s AI...at day 4 that's a big difference

models-2025021412-f108.500hv.na.gif
 
ICON was awful, but it was a small step towards what we want, imo. The trough/developing cut off was closer to sucking over towards New England... It's a razor's edge thing.

I'll trust the EPS/Euro AI has the right idea... and glad to see the ICON take at least a small step in that direction.
 
So how legit is this model? I see you all talking about it. But I haven't payed much attention to it.
Full credit to @griteater, but the AI guidance seems to perform quite well at 120 hrs out. I'll confess I've not followed the GFS GraphCast as much as the EC AI, but I have observed that inside of D5, the EC AI does seem less prone to significant jumps, but it certainly isn't infallible either.
Yall gone make me have to post these charts again it looks like :)

Over the previous 3 winters (21-22. 22-23, 23-24), the Euro AI (AIFS) and the AI GraphCast (I'm guessing this is the Euro AI Graphcast and not the GFS AI Graphcast) were the best performing models here on the chart for the Day 5 forecast at 500mb in the Northern Hemisphere Extratropics.

View attachment 167727


Here are the charts for the Euro AI (AIFS) outperforming the Regular Euro (IFS) last winter (23-24). These charts are for days 1 thru 10. Note that the chart on the left is anomaly correlation, so the top line on the chart is the better performer (Euro AI). Upper right chart is the 850mb temperature error, so the bottom line on the chart is the better performer (Euro AI). Bottom right chart is in the Tropics.

View attachment 167728
 
So how legit is this model? I see you all talking about it. But I haven't payed much attention to it.
It's not great. Went to a talk at the AMS conference about AI models and the graphcast when compared to other AI models had some of the worst verification scores. Euro AI was the best I believe.
 
It's not great. Went to a talk at the AMS conference about AI models and the graphcast when compared to other AI models had some of the worst verification scores. Euro AI was the best I believe.
I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the graphcast uses the exact same program/software to run on both the GFS and Euro initialization data.

The Euro ran graphcast is better than the Euro and its Ensemble suite is the best Day 5+ forecast prediction tool in the world, (there's published data showing this at least).

The GFS ran graphcast... I can't find much data on verification, but I'd assume it scores better than the traditional GFS too. What little bit of data I could find, sounds like it's somewhat better.
 
I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the graphcast uses the exact same program/software to run on both the GFS and Euro initialization data.

The Euro ran graphcast is better than the Euro and its Ensemble suite is the best Day 5+ forecast prediction tool in the world, (there's published data showing this at least).

The GFS ran graphcast... I can't find much data on verification, but I'd assume it scores better than the traditional GFS too. What little bit of data I could find, sounds like it's somewhat better.
Thats interesting okay, thanks for this. I was talking about the GFS graphcast though, not Euro ran graphcast.
 
Hard to make out this GFS run. Looks worse with the main wave but the cold confluence is holding back more in the NE. Probably more ice IMG_5440.png
 
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