Just about every point you are trying to make about Christianity is completely wrong. You haven't understood anything that anyone has been trying to tell you.
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Misc All Things Religious
- Thread starter Cad Wedge NC
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Avalanche
Member
I have no clue how he arrives at the conclusions he does.
When you are determined to be against something, you will be against it no matter how goofy your arguments actually are. It’s the whole “If you believe God flooded the earth, how did he get all the animals on the ark?” argument,
W
WSW
Guest
Just need to say this with all that is going on. Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem are all part of Israel and always will be. The UN really disgusts me sometimes.
NCSNOW
Member
Its unfair for any of us to "get off free". Nothing we can do saves our sinfull souls. its only because of the one who paid the penalty for us on that cross. Laid his life down for anyone who accepts his free gift. If I had to count on me, id be in a world of hurt.
This may help. Funny,but nails it. Shortened down to 60 seconds
Little longer version.
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Sandbar
Member
So what about the humans who lived before Jesus or people who have zero access to Christianity ever? They don't get the same reward?
Cad Wedge NC
Member
That's a great question...... The folks, before Jesus, believed in the coming of the Messiah. They put their faith in what He (Jesus) was going to do. That was their path to Salvation.
As for folks that never heard the Gospel, I believe everyone is given the chance to decide what path they want to follow. Your access to Salvation may be dependent on whether or not you seek the knowledge. I am sure that there will be people in Hell who did not know God's exact plan of salvation. However, I refuse to believe that God would punish someone if they were not given an opportunity to choose right from wrong or if they didn't have the mental capacity to make a decision.
Sandbar
Member
The Christian bible says you have to go "through" Jesus to get the kingdom and that's the ONLY WAY according to what we're told. Lots of humans never come to know Jesus, the bible or Christianity yet many of those very same people live a more "godly" life than some folks who supposedly follow the plan to a "T". Whatever label one gives to the divine creator, I just don't see judgement and vengeance coming to good people because they aren't "religious" or choose not to be in favor of spirituality
The question always goes back to what exactly is “good”.
That is exactly right. "Good" only matters at all if everybody can agree on what "good" is and not just now, but for all time. And then, assuming you could get everyone to agree on the definition of "good", you have to define what "good enough" means. This is an impossible thing to do without a standard.
It's like a guy at the front door of a nightclub saying, "Hey man, I know we have a long line here, but you can get into the club if you have enough units", and then he walks away.
Everybody likes to try use their own experience, their own wisdom to determine what "good" is and then construct an ideologyaround that. It keeps you from having to face the possibility that there is a higher authority that has to be ultimately answered to, which is quite uncomfortable when you start to think deeply about it.
And I also completely reject the commonly-used example of "there are so many non-Christians that are better than Christians, in terms of their character and behavior. Does the idea ever occur that maybe the "Christians" aren't really Christians? Going to church and saying, "I'm a Christian" doesn't make one a Christian.
Sandbar
Member
Good, moral..... just words that mean different things to different people at different times trust me. Just another POV from war
Sandbar
Member
From my view atop the mountain looking down, heaven is going to be a very lonely place if this is the case because I don't see very many people who follow the teachings of Jesus actually following them. Not to get personal but what would you say your odds are at this point in your life of getting through unscathed and sent to the pits? I've done a lot of "biblical sinning" in my life and at the worst levels. I'm most likely going to the firey pits myself (per the bible) so I might as well stop worrying over it and go straight to the source to beg forgiveness once. If I have to confess and beg forgiveness everytime I F up I'm most likely not living according to the word and that's about 99.99999% of those living as a Christian based on my perspective
These discussions are almost always fruitless because they go in circles. Everybody sins and needs forgiveness. If you accept Jesus Christ, truly, you will be changed. You will still sin, but the blood the Jesus paid covers your sin. If you truly accept Christ, you will concurrently have a desire to be more like him and earnestly try not to sin. You will never be perfect, but you will grow in your walk.
But the point i made earlier is that according to the "I'll just be good" method, there is no way to ever know what good is and how good you need to be. I can't imagine how it must really feel to have to guess at it like that.
Sandbar
Member
I "accepted" him about 45 years ago but there is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning. This is really the problem that led me down a different path. If I accept him and accept his sacrifice to cover my sin you know what I'm gonna do? Sin....why? Because I'm human. I can strive all I want to be more like Jesus until I'm blue in the face but that's a level I can't even get close to. As I have stopped putting everything in a box and labeling it I have become more compassionate and closer to "my idea" of how my creator expects me to be. Judgement and retribution are just 2 of the labels I removed
Righteous people went to what's called Paradise, before Jesus. And when Jesus went to hell after he died on the cross he let them out to go to heaven. The Bible verse that talks about the rich man in hell able to see the poor man in heaven and wanted a drink of water makes perfect sense with what I said above. Paradise was close to hell in the center of Earth.
NCSNOW
Member
Ive asked myself this many years ago and dont mind answering. But it would take 30 mins typing. So here is a decent summary. The bible answers this question very plainly. Its a great question sandbar and forgive me, give me a pass for being to lazy to type it all out. We dont agree on several things in here, but I still respect you and we all certainly I hope appreciate your service and your sons currently.
Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org
What happens to people who never have a chance to hear about Jesus? Will God condemn a person who has never heard about Him?
www.gotquestions.org
NCSNOW
Member
Its important to remember Jesus died for all our sins. Past,present future. The bible says when we confess them, repent ,God forgets them as far as the east is from the west.
True repentance is doing a 180 degree turn. Dont lose sight of that when confessing sin.
Also dont lose sight of the fact we still live in our human sin nature shell down here.
1 john 1:8-9
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Jesus knows what we deal with,feel,expierence. He knows us better than we know ourselves. As we celebrate his miraculous birth, remember he was 100% human and 100% God at the same time, while on this earth for 33ish years. Unlike us ,he never sinned. But he knows we are 100% incapable of living a perfect sinless life here on earth. Why he said he didnt come to this world to condem the world,but that the world could be saved through him . John 3:17
True repentance is doing a 180 degree turn. Dont lose sight of that when confessing sin.
Also dont lose sight of the fact we still live in our human sin nature shell down here.
1 john 1:8-9
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Jesus knows what we deal with,feel,expierence. He knows us better than we know ourselves. As we celebrate his miraculous birth, remember he was 100% human and 100% God at the same time, while on this earth for 33ish years. Unlike us ,he never sinned. But he knows we are 100% incapable of living a perfect sinless life here on earth. Why he said he didnt come to this world to condem the world,but that the world could be saved through him . John 3:17
Sandbar
Member
How do you "know" all of this? Because the bible is 200% spot on and can't be wrong or off in any way, shape or form because it was "divinely" inspired despite being written by fallable men? What makes any other religious dogma wrong? I mean there are other books out there that were divinely inspired as well. What makes you or anyone else who prescribes to a strict dogma right over anyone else? Like I said before I have engaged many, many, many times in the ultimate sin according to the bible, I killed human beings that according to the bible were "created in gods image". If all I have to do is proclaim someone as my savior and ask for forgiveness for killing another human that sounds pretty lazy and easy to me. I'm not trying to undermine you guys in any way but stealing a pack of gum or lying to your spouse about where you were last night isn't quite the same experience with "sin" as what I have been through. It makes a difference when you speak of these things. What changed me was being told for the 100k time in my life to put my troubles in his hands because God had full control as I squeezed that trigger yet again. It was 100% me then and it's 100% in MY HANDS now.
Honestly you remind me of a combat vet I worked with fifteen years ago. He stated he was ex-Navy seal and from being around him I didn’t doubt it. He went from trying to drown his past in booze, then to escape that hell and the demons he said we there moved into a
charity/volunteer/Christian/Christian conspiracy mindset. While I definitely disagreed with his theology I could tell he was searching. He then moved into online overseas dating and the last I heard about him was from a comment on a YouTube video of the place where we worked. Obviously he was now immersed in what appeared to be a mix of Hinduism and eastern mysticism living in some Asian country.
None of us here can know what you went through or the guilt you carry. So we can just pray for your healing both physically and mentally.
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