But they don't go free, their salvation, if it comes, does not absolve them of the consequences of their actions. They still receive their punishment here, but Jesus's sacrifice, his blood, covers all sin and is there for anyone who truly believes for eternal salvation. Your other point about living to be 80 and waiting till 79 to believe is ok but you aren't promised 80. You aren't promised 79, 78, 50, 20 or tomorrow and is a fools game to play.
This is nuts...so you don't do things like rape and murder only because you fear hell? Is this really what you think...this clip pretty much sums it up...Mr Asimov nails it here.
It’s fools game to play but I sure can play it and win! What if they get no punishment in this life?
Morals are derived from a divine creator, you don't have to believe it but it doesn't make it untrue.
You win only if you truly believe and accept Jesus, just saying it doesn't do it. Punishment will find them. If they become true Believers they will not be able to live with that guilt and will suffer the consequences one way or another
I said this earlier, but you either believe it or not. After a while the discussion boils down to "I'm right." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "No you're not."
Yep. My downfall is trying to convince them of something they are far from believing. I don't want to give up but at the same time, the information is there, the gospel has been shared, it's up to the individual to accept or reject
Yes sir.
It’s not right or wrong, I’m just not seeing your belief system add up. I’m trying to understand what you believe while also challenging it . I think we both understand we won’t change the others belief but I hope we understand each other better at the end
What does Muhammad instruct to happen to sinners?
And where did you first learn about those morals? Your parents of course. Then they took you to church and your pastor taught you about the bible and you take it all in and you believe it in your heart 100% right? Did you believe everything you were being "taught" because you felt it or because you were scared of letting those people down? If you truly felt it that's awesome and I have a crisp $100 bill that every single christian in this room will tell me the exact same story. I can however point you to a large group of people who are like me. Who went to church with parents as a kid, was told there is only one way to get to heaven and that every answer to every question on life is in that book. There is scripture for everything. I remember being in the team room in Iraq with all the guys huddled up. We go over yesterday, cover today's objectives, and before heading out the unit chaplain comes in and we of course pray. I can't tell you how many times I came back in a typical day, killed 5 insurgents, saw a handful of young marines die, maybe if I am lucky I see no women or kids blown up or a head in the street. That's a typical day in Ramadi 2006. Then I go back to the Chaplin to get my head straight and he always had a great answer for me involving scripture of course, that it's all part of God's plan and to put my worries in his hands. I did of course and as you can imagine I went out the next day and the day after and saw the exact same outcome. At what point do I start questioning the motives of all of it? I trusted of course because my parents taught me the same things they were taught and there parents before them which is funny because my grandfather and father went through the exact same thing I did in war. There thinking changed because of it but I was still stubborn in my ways. I carried a heavy burden in me for a long time until I had my own awakening. Your way is ok brother if you truly believe in it 100% but Iied to myself and faked it for 52 years. I know you guys have kids like me. What would you tell them if they decided to change paths to something similar to mine? Would you fear for them? Talk them out of it? It's easy to tell a guy you never met these things. What would you say to your own child?
I appreciate your perspective on my beliefs and being inclusive of it. I accept and am satisfied with the Biblical account of creation and life, and is my hope and assurance of eternal life. I don’t expect everyone to believe that, and while I reject other notions, I have no issue at all with people proclaiming theirs. You are very civil with your conversations, as we all should be.
They can derived from just the human experience without any divine bases. I know this is hard for christians tomaccept but it is the raw truth. I'll give you an example.