Brother what I'm trying to say is there is no standard for ME anymore. This isn't about telling someone they are wrong. You aren't wrong, The Hindu isn't wrong, the Buddhist isn't wrong, the Muslim isn't wrong and neither is the Jew. Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I never even knew it existed but it isn't a part of the bible. Why is that? Because the Roman Catholic church had it removed is why which leads me to question what else they have hidden from humanity. The first gospels of the new testament weren't written until 40 years after Jesus death and continued for a century. The bible you read today is a document written by man, translated through multiple languages and multiple empires over thousands of years. If historians were to rewrite the new testament today would it look the same? Would you still accept it as the true word of god?
Sandbar, I will try to address some of your questions if I can. Not because I am any authority or because I have all the answers, but I do think you are asking valid questions from a sincere place.
- For a Christian, the standard is Jesus, not the Bible itself. The Bible will not and can not get someone reconciled with God; neither can doctrine, church, "religion," or good works.
Only the sacrifice of Jesus is able to do that.
However, the Bible is very important for helping us learn about God, His world, and the life and works of Jesus; as well as the early Christians. It has tons of what is often called "spiritual food;" that helps bring us a better ability to know God, the world and our place in it, and how to relate to others around us. The Bible actually has lots of historical support (manuscript, eye witness testimony, archaeological, etc); more than just about any ancient historical document that we have. If we can't take the Bible at it's word, there is no reason to believe any of it, including anything about Jesus. Remember, the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses and Paul's writings were firsthand to his experiences, including his oppressive past and conversion. Many of these guys died for what they knew, first hand, to be true; not something they just
thought was true.
Here is a good video from a guy named Cliffe (not actually sure his last name). He is a longtime pastor who has gone to college campuses for decades to talk to people with questions just like yours. There are many many of his sessions on youtube, but this particular one addresses several of your questions. If you take the time to listen it will address them better than I can.
Here is part 2 of that if you want more
"You aren't wrong, The Hindu isn't wrong, the Buddhist isn't wrong, the Muslim isn't wrong and neither is the Jew."
- Here you seem to be talking about relativism. If people in these groups are saying conflicting things, which each maintain are true, then someone
has to be wrong. They can't all be true. If you are talking about "this is true for me and that is true for you" then you are saying truth is relative, meaning there is no absolute truth (which is itself a statement of absolute truth; see the logical contradiction there?). Cliffe also addresses this in the video above, and has other videos about this topic; as does Frank Turek, John Lennox, and others.
I was baptized before I could walk and yes I believe Jesus is the son of god who was crucified and raised from the dead. My connection to the creator is no longer through the bible or a church. I go straight to the source through meditation. That's the only difference between me today and me last year. Is that the wrong way? There is no wrong way to have a relationship with the creator
This is the core issue here; ie, John 3:16. That is technically all that matters.
However, throwing out the Bible and church (a Church is a body of believers, not a building) can severely limit our ability to grow, learn, and nurture that faith. That would be like throwing out prayer. We can still know the truth but it's hard to grow or do much with it. Prayer, fellowship, and the Bible are all important for spiritual growth.
The ultimate goal is eternal life in heaven right? Do you think people who never read one word of that book get a ticket to eternal life?
So to follow; yes, people who have never read the Bible can be in Heaven. Many people prior to the Bible will be be in Heaven or are already. Elijah was taken up to Heaven, Jesus told the repentant sinner on the cross he would be in his father's house, etc; neither of them had the Bible.
So what happens to those poor unfortunate souls who died before the bible was written?
See above. Knowing, following, and seeking God was the charge before the time of Jesus and the Bible. The old testament was the old covenant about what had to happen for people to be reconciled, but it was ultimately incomplete as the sacrifice of Jesus still had to happen since it wasn't possible for people to earn it back. But the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't just for the people of the day he died, or just for the people he had met during his life, or even just for the people who came after him; it was for all people who sought to be reconciled to God. God is not limited by time or a timeline. His sacrifice is retroactive just as it was proactive.
Not what I'm asking. I have accepted Christ as my savior. I have a very active and close relationship with my creator. The Bible is not the ticket into heaven which has been my argument if you want to call it such. I still look to the bible for guidance as any christian should I just refuse to weaponize it to condemn others, especially when the very people in charge of it's canon were the ones who nailed Jesus to the cross.
I would agree with the bolded here completely (not that it matters what I agree or disagree with, as I'm not the standard of course). On condemning others; we don't have that power. Us using a book or not does not condemn people, nor does our approval or disapproval of what they do. Condemnation comes from the separation from God that results from our sin and rebellion. Reconciliation comes from the sacrifice of Jesus.
The nailing of Jesus to a cross was done by all people who have ever sinned; so all of us. He wouldn't have had to be there if it weren't for me too. There are great books and videos on how we got the cannon, why the Apocryphal books were not included, etc.
Just some thoughts... I like participating in a great discussion like this!
