Misc All Things Religious

[Rain Cold]

This is where we differ now. I look at ancient sumerian civilizations that inhabited earth before there was a bible. Long before scripture. Did god put the semarians on earth? If he did as we both believe as the creator of all why should I believe the bible is the end all be all of who or what god is? God is light, he is energy, he is frequency. I'm not sure why that is so easily dismissed. We as humans understand the physical world we live in because we can see it, touch it and describe it with language or drawings. What makes one religion right and the other wrong? It makes sense to me that if I am to connect with a devine creator, I'm not going to make the connection I desire in the physical realm with which I exist at present. In my mind the connection is what's important to God not the manner in which we partake in that process. I still enjoy and am fascinated by the bible in a historical sense I just no longer feel it's my ticket to eternity.

You can believe all of those things to be true, but that doesn't make it all true, or any of it true, for that matter. There has to be a standard for what is real and not real, what us true and not true.

One's unique feelings on anything - religion, society, politics, connection to a divine creator, what God is or isn't, isn't a standard for all mankind. It might be a personal guide, but it isn't a standard for all. Personally, I see the Bible as the standard, the cornerstone of truth for all. The Bible tells the nature of God and how God is to be worshiped and defines how our relationship with him should be. Those things are true, because the Bible says they are true.

The Bible is the end all be all because it says it is. It is the word of God. If we believe it is the word of God and not just the writings of a few good-hearted folk, then we must believe it and believe all of it. And if we do believe it, then the quasi-pantheistic view that you hold is precarious. That is, if we test it against Scripture.

That said, you don't have to believe the Bible as the true word of God. You don't have to accept it at all. You can believe that each person can have their own standard of truth and reality and can connect to whatever god they cojure up, however they imagine him, in whatever way suits them, and in whatever form fits their religious perspective. You can do of that. But you can't do it and still claim that the Bible is the word of God. You have to diminish it down to being just a common work of fiction, written by men, without any divine inspiration whatsoever. That is your only choice if you hold the view you have presented. And that's perfectly fine.

Everyone can believe what they want. You just don't have the choice to believe whatever you feel and also claim Scripture as truth. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Bham 99]

Jesus's blood is what makes the difference between Christianity and other religions.

 

[Iceagewhereartthou]

What do I need to be careful of? The "christian god" is the very "label" I sought to remove myself from. When I was a kid I was drug to church. When I got married I went because it pleased my wife. When I was deployed I went to our chaplains service because that's what I was raised to do. My time now is spent in meditation with just me, the breath my creator breathed in to me and my conscience that is quieted and clear. I have never been more at peace or closer to the creator. Not because my way is better but because there is no wrong way in my opinion. I still read the bible I just see it in a very, very different way

Great response by RC, it says a lot of what I was getting at. You certainly don't have to answer to me or your parents, your chaplains, or even to your wife. If that was what disturbed you about your past faith you may have changed it without need. If Christianity is true you only have to answer to God and following Him is between you and Him and no one else. But if it's true, we cannot be deceived. As RC said, God's fingerprint is throughout the created universe, but He is not wound within it's fabric. If it's true, the "Christian God" is not a god, He's the God; the only God. If not, then we're all free to create whatever god(s) we want, but then those created gods can't be true gods.

As for peace and happiness; I personally think true peace and happiness can only come from God as those are two of His attributes and originate from Him. We can certainly have glimpses of those in this life but it pales compared to what would await when reunited with Him. For Christians, in this life, we are guaranteed neither. CS Lewis said this:

“I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”
​

― C. S. Lewis

 

[Metwannabe]

You guys nailed it, I can't add anything of value and don't want to seem as though I'm piling on. But 100% as written in Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”

He is certainly visible to us because of His creation but He is not in it. When I asked earlier where Jesus fits into this spritual journey, for me, it's as simple as: Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, came to earth to live as man, took our sins to the cross and on the third was raised up, defeating death?! And have you confessed your sins to Him asking Jesus to come into your heart? That's it, that's Christianity, our Savior is still alive sitting on the right hand of God as our (those who have accepted Him) mediator, savior and perfect sacrificial lamb! I get over joyed typing this, this life is only a fleeting moment, true peace and happiness, perfection for an eternity is what awaits. As Paul stated, "To live is Christ, to die is gain!"

This is a relationship not religion and this is how, although some days are tough and I may not be happy, I never lose my joy, what a day that will be!

 

[Sandbar]

You can believe all of those things to be true, but that doesn't make it all true, or any of it true, for that matter. There has to be a standard for what is real and not real, what us true and not true.

One's unique feelings on anything - religion, society, politics, connection to a divine creator, what God is or isn't, isn't a standard for all mankind. It might be a personal guide, but it isn't a standard for all. Personally, I see the Bible as the standard, the cornerstone of truth for all. The Bible tells the nature of God and how God is to be worshiped and defines how our relationship with him should be. Those things are true, because the Bible says they are true.

The Bible is the end all be all because it says it is. It is the word of God. If we believe it is the word of God and not just the writings of a few good-hearted folk, then we must believe it and believe all of it. And if we do believe it, then the quasi-pantheistic view that you hold is precarious. That is, if we test it against Scripture.

That said, you don't have to believe the Bible as the true word of God. You don't have to accept it at all. You can believe that each person can have their own standard of truth and reality and can connect to whatever god they cojure up, however they imagine him, in whatever way suits them, and in whatever form fits their religious perspective. You can do of that. But you can't do it and still claim that the Bible is the word of God. You have to diminish it down to being just a common work of fiction, written by men, without any divine inspiration whatsoever. That is your only choice if you hold the view you have presented. And that's perfectly fine.

Everyone can believe what they want. You just don't have the choice to believe whatever you feel and also claim Scripture as truth. That's all I'm saying.

Brother what I'm trying to say is there is no standard for ME anymore. This isn't about telling someone they are wrong. You aren't wrong, The Hindu isn't wrong, the Buddhist isn't wrong, the Muslim isn't wrong and neither is the Jew. Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I never even knew it existed but it isn't a part of the bible. Why is that? Because the Roman Catholic church had it removed is why which leads me to question what else they have hidden from humanity. The first gospels of the new testament weren't written until 40 years after Jesus death and continued for a century. The bible you read today is a document written by man, translated through multiple languages and multiple empires over thousands of years. If historians were to rewrite the new testament today would it look the same? Would you still accept it as the true word of god?

 

[Sandbar]

You guys nailed it, I can't add anything of value and don't want to seem as though I'm piling on. But 100% as written in Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”

He is certainly visible to us because of His creation but He is not in it. When I asked earlier where Jesus fits into this spritual journey, for me, it's as simple as: Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, came to earth to live as man, took our sins to the cross and on the third was raised up, defeating death?! And have you confessed your sins to Him asking Jesus to come into your heart? That's it, that's Christianity, our Savior is still alive sitting on the right hand of God as our (those who have accepted Him) mediator, savior and perfect sacrificial lamb! I get over joyed typing this, this life is only a fleeting moment, true peace and happiness, perfection for an eternity is what awaits. As Paul stated, "To live is Christ, to die is gain!"

This is a relationship not religion and this is how, although some days are tough and I may not be happy, I never lose my joy, what a day that will be!

I was baptized before I could walk and yes I believe Jesus is the son of god who was crucified and raised from the dead. My connection to the creator is no longer through the bible or a church. I go straight to the source through meditation. That's the only difference between me today and me last year. Is that the wrong way? There is no wrong way to have a relationship with the creator

 

[Arcc]

Brother what I'm trying to say is there is no standard for ME anymore. This isn't about telling someone they are wrong. You aren't wrong, The Hindu isn't wrong, the Buddhist isn't wrong, the Muslim isn't wrong and neither is the Jew. Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I never even knew it existed but it isn't a part of the bible. Why is that? Because the Roman Catholic church had it removed is why which leads me to question what else they have hidden from humanity. The first gospels of the new testament weren't written until 40 years after Jesus death and continued for a century. The bible you read today is a document written by man, translated through multiple languages and multiple empires over thousands of years. If historians were to rewrite the new testament today would it look the same? Would you still accept it as the true word of god?

This is true, the Bible has been translated multiple times over a thousand years yet still remains the same. Sure you can “what if” it to death, but it goes back to what RC said and if you believe it’s Gods word or not. If you believe God himself can take the form of a man through a virgin birth, do miracles, choose himself to die on a cross to take all sin of man and all hell for all of eternity for all who believes in a moment, then rise from the dead; it’s not hard to believe the same God can preserve his word concerning it for a few years.

It all goes back to what you really believe about who God is. If you decide not to believe certain foundations, you have chosen to take the exit off the freeway with no GPS or map.

 

[Sandbar]

This is true, the Bible has been translated multiple times over a thousand years yet still remains the same. Sure you can “what if” it to death, but it goes back to what RC said and if you believe it’s Gods word or not. If you believe God himself can take the form of a man through a virgin birth, do miracles, choose himself to die on a cross to take all sin of man and all hell for all of eternity for all who believes in a moment, then rise from the dead; it’s not hard to believe the same God can preserve his word concerning it for a few years.

It all goes back to what you really believe about who God is. If you decide not to believe certain foundations, you have chosen to take the exit off the freeway with no GPS or map.

The ultimate goal is eternal life in heaven right? Do you think people who never read one word of that book get a ticket to eternal life?

 

[Arcc]

The ultimate goal is eternal life in heaven right? Do you think people who never read one word of that book get a ticket to eternal life?

The ultimate goal is absolute perfection whereby we can see God which can only be obtained by an absolute perfect sacrifice.

As far a those who haven’t heard, in Romans it pretty much condemns those because “God through creation is clearly seen” and Paul states later on in Romans “How shall they believe if they don’t have a preacher.” That said, I believe God is a just God who affords the opportunity to those who are searching for him. When and how does God afford that opportunity, I don’t know.

 

[Sandbar]

The ultimate goal is absolute perfection whereby we can see God which can only be obtained by an absolute perfect sacrifice.

As far a those who haven’t heard, in Romans it pretty much condemns those because “God through creation is clearly seen” and Paul states later on in Romans “How shall they believe if they don’t have a preacher.” That said, I believe God is a just God who affords the opportunity to those who are searching for him. When and how does God afford that opportunity, I don’t know.

Well I guess what I have been trying to say is that I do have a preacher....Me! The only difference between you guys and myself is I go directly to source when I connect. I never felt a real "connection" to God until I understood how my Native American ancestors connected.

 

[Metwannabe]

Well I guess what I have been trying to say is that I do have a preacher....Me! The only difference between you guys and myself is I go directly to source when I connect. I never felt a real "connection" to God until I understood how my Native American ancestors connected.

I don't need a preacher or a priest to communicate with God, when Jesus died on that cross the veil ripped and He became our mediator. I commune anywhere anytime through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I love you brother and appreciate all you have done, but satan is using your spiritual journey as a vessel of deception. You either believe the Bible or you don't l, all of it not some of it. If anyone or any religion or any thing leads you to believe there is a way to God, to perfect eternal union with Him by a means other than Jesus, you are being deceived. In John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me." He did not say he was one of the ways, a way, or one along the way, He said I am THE Way, there is no other.

 

[Sandbar]

I don't need a preacher or a priest to communicate with God, when Jesus died on that cross the veil ripped and He became our mediator. I commune anywhere anytime through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I love you brother and appreciate all you have done, but satan is using your spiritual journey as a vessel of deception. You either believe the Bible or you don't l, all of it not some of it. If anyone or any religion or any thing leads you to believe there is a way to God, to perfect eternal union with Him by a means other than Jesus, you are being deceived. In John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me." He did not say he was one of the ways, a way, or one along the way, He said I am THE Way, there is no other.

Do you believe that those who don't walk the exact path that christians do are doomed to hell? That's what you really believe? Where do you think those unborn babies reside when they are aborted? Are they in hell too? Purgatory maybe? When Jesus said no one comes to the father except through me what does that mean? That I have to believe every single word written in a book after he was crucified and resurrected? What happens to people located in a tribe deep in the jungle, never visited by man when they die? They don't know of Jesus so are they just sh*t out of luck?

 

[Metwannabe]

Do you believe that those who don't walk the exact path that christians do are doomed to hell? That's what you really believe? Where do you think those unborn babies reside when they are aborted? Are they in hell too? Purgatory maybe? When Jesus said no one comes to the father except through me what does that mean? That I have to believe every single word written in a book after he was crucified and resurrected? What happens to people located in a tribe deep in the jungle, never visited by man when they die? They don't know of Jesus so are they just sh*t out of luck?

John 3:17-18 God did not send His son into the world to comdemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. Yes, those who choose a path other than Jesus will go to hell if they do not repent and accept Jesus before death. Now, unborn babies and children who die before the age of accountability (which is a different discussion and I believe different ages for different children's level of understanding) will not be condemned to hell. But once they reach that age of understanding have a choice to make and those who choose Christ, choose eternal life, those who reject Him will unfortunately hear the words "I never knew, you, depart from me."

The question of tribes that have never heard is a really good topic of discussion. There is scripture in Matthew that states all will hear before Christ return, does this mean every single person or groups of people? Scripture also tells us His creation is a testimony to His existence, those who have never heard Jesus would still know there is a God through His creation. I'm sure iceageweather, RC or Arcc could give much better insight into that topic.

God's word tells us to add nothing nor take away anything from His word, it is to be believed, every book, chapter and verse. And it's simple, only through the shed blood of Christ can we be saved, that's what He means when he says he is the only way.

 

[Sandbar]

John 3:17-18 God did not send His son into the world to comdemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. Yes, those who choose a path other than Jesus will go to hell if they do not repent and accept Jesus before death. Now, unborn babies and children who die before the age of accountability (which is a different discussion and I believe different ages for different children's level of understanding) will not be condemned to hell. But once they reach that age of understanding have a choice to make and those who choose Christ, choose eternal life, those who reject Him will unfortunately hear the words "I never knew, you, depart from me."

The question of tribes that have never heard is a really good topic of discussion. There is scripture in Matthew that states all will hear before Christ return, does this mean every single person or groups of people? Scripture also tells us His creation is a testimony to His existence, those who have never heard Jesus would still know there is a God through His creation. I'm sure iceageweather, RC or Arcc could give much better insight into that topic.

God's word tells us to add nothing nor take away anything from His word, it is to be believed, every book, chapter and verse. And it's simple, only through the shed blood of Christ can we be saved, that's what He means when he says he is the only way.

So what happens to those poor unfortunate souls who died before the bible was written?

 

[Metwannabe]

So what happens to those poor unfortunate souls who died before the bible was written?

The ones who lived during the times the Bible is written about? The law was written for them, they had the temple, priest and lambs without blemish as sacrifices for atonement of their sins. Jesus became the ultimate perfect sacrificial lamb, no more need for animal sacrifices and rituals. There are numerous instances in the old testament of use of the blood of the lamb. God revealed himself much differently then, they were aware and still had choices to make with eternal implications. Only poor souls before the Bible was penned are those who rejected God

 

[Sandbar]

The ones who lived during the times the Bible is written about? The law was written for them, they had the temple, priest and lambs without blemish as sacrifices for atonement of their sins. Jesus became the ultimate perfect sacrificial lamb, no more need for animal sacrifices and rituals. There are numerous instances in the old testament of use of the blood of the lamb. God revealed himself much differently then, they were aware and still had choices to make with eternal implications. Only poor souls before the Bible was penned are those who rejected God

I have a wonderful connection to Jesus who I accepted A long time ago. I have a loving connection with the creator that I never had before. Shouldn't that be enough?

 

[Arcc]

I have a wonderful connection to Jesus who I accepted A long time ago. I have a loving connection with the creator that I never had before. Shouldn't that be enough?

Is one tiny piece of apple pie enough? Or is one spoonful of nice cold ice cream on a hot summer day sufficient? Of course not.

A Christian can never have enough Christ and the yearning and thirsting to do what is acceptable to Christ only grows as time moves on. If we are looking for a finish line or a certain plane to reach and to have enough God we are misguided.

 

[Sandbar]

Is one tiny piece of apple pie enough? Or is one spoonful of nice cold ice cream on a hot summer day sufficient? Of course not.

A Christian can never have enough Christ and the yearning and thirsting to do what is acceptable to Christ only grows as time moves on. If we are looking for a finish line or a certain plane to reach and to be enough God we are misguided.

Not what I'm asking. I have accepted Christ as my savior. I have a very active and close relationship with my creator. The Bible is not the ticket into heaven which has been my argument if you want to call it such. I still look to the bible for guidance as any christian should I just refuse to weaponize it to condemn others, especially when the very people in charge of it's canon were the ones who nailed Jesus to the cross.

 

[Rain Cold]

Not what I'm asking. I have accepted Christ as my savior. I have a very active and close relationship with my creator. The Bible is not the ticket into heaven which has been my argument if you want to call it such. I still look to the bible for guidance as any christian should I just refuse to weaponize it to condemn others, especially when the very people in charge of it's canon were the ones who nailed Jesus to the cross.

The last part of what you wrote isn't true. There are a lot of cross-currents in this thread with respect to how the Bible came to be. If you don't accept the Bible as the complete and true word of God, then there's no need to even debate it, which was my point earlier.

Any theology that I would hold comes from the Bible. If you or anyone doesn't accept the Bible, then everything simply comes down to a personal opinion. And there's basis for which to debate that.

 

[Arcc]

Not what I'm asking. I have accepted Christ as my savior. I have a very active and close relationship with my creator. The Bible is not the ticket into heaven which has been my argument if you want to call it such. I still look to the bible for guidance as any christian should I just refuse to weaponize it to condemn others, especially when the very people in charge of it's canon were the ones who nailed Jesus to the cross.

What makes you look to the Bible for guidance? If it is what you say it is, then you are pretty much wasting your time.