Misc All Things Religious

[Sandbar]

I find the new ET and UFO revelations fascinating to a degree, especially since our government is now starting to hint they exist, with proof. I find it fascinating because it makes one wonder why all of a sudden we have all this information we're willing to reveal, why now? If I can find it I'll post it, but I saw a video of a pastor talking about this is the world's way of coming up with reasoning for when the rapture happens. Kind of makes sense because I've always thought, if someone was left behind and they saw millions of people all of a sudden vanish from the earth, wouldn't they believe? I mean, I'm not gonna be here praise the Lord, but if I were, I think once news hit of the chaos and people vanishing I'd know what's up and believe. Except, satan is brilliant at what he does and these new UFO revelations could just be a part of his scheme. Think about this, once the rapture hits, the people left behind will have been filled with tons and tons of information about other life forms, ETs, UFOs, other dimensions, wormholes, with more and more evidence to support all theories. They won't believe this was the rapture, it will be explained away by other life forms taking them or wormholes sucking them up or whatever the case may be. I don't pretend to be a theologian, I certainly don't know God's plans for the future, the when/where, nor every little intricacy of His creation. But I do not believe he created multiple worlds, with multiple life forms, the Bible doesn't say He created the world(s), it says He created the world. Bottom line I know who my savior is and where I'll be when that comes and not gonna lose any sleep over all the little details, that's for sure.

Good points! So to keep this in that context what is god to you? What do you think happens when you pass away. I'm going to give you my thoughts later becasue this is a fascinating topic to me lately and not trying to disprove anything but want to hear your thoughts

 

[Metwannabe]

 

[Steven_1974]

Well according to my part of Christianity, this idea of rapture certain denominations have isn't the way it's supposed to be.

Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?


Answer: No. The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.

1. But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress to rapture enthusiasts. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as we look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”


“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!


That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the Protestant “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!


The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.


And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”


So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.


In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Additional comments:
The real issue (not often clear in people’s minds) is not the idea of a rapture (Christians being taken up or ‘translated’ to be with the Lord) but rather the timing of the rapture in relation to the Lord’s second coming. The controversial (and quite obviously erroneous) idea is what is called the pre- or mid- tribulation rapture. The effect of this non-biblical idea is that at some point before “the end of the age” (before the Lord’s second coming), Christians would disappear from the world, leaving behind a lot of people who would then face the awful years of the tribulation.


This idea, however, is neither biblical nor credible. The idea that not just many cars but also jetliners would be left without drivers and pilots is simply beyond credibility, and by no means called for by a sound reading of the Bible.


Perhaps the most compelling argument against the pre/mid tribulation rapture theory is that no Christian believed it or even knew about it for the first 1800 years of Christianity. When it comes to Christianity, the “faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3), there is simple rule: “if its new, it just can’t be true!”

 

[Metwannabe]

Good points! So to keep this in that context what is god to you? What do you think happens when you pass away. I'm going to give you my thoughts later becasue this is a fascinating topic to me lately and not trying to disprove anything but want to hear your thoughts

God isn't a what but a who. He is the creator of all things, he was, is and always will be. He is Yahweh, the great I Am, the Three-in-One, my Heavenly Father whom I will spend eternity with. When we start trying to define who God is based on anything other than what His word tells us, it dangerous territory to tread.

 

[Metwannabe]

Here is a great blog by Dr. David Jeremiah on the rapture, it goes into great detail and way too much to copy and paste but I'd encourage anyone to take the time to read it and watch the videos

What Is the Rapture?

The Rapture is the next event on the timeline of biblical prophecy. Dr. Jeremiah explains what it is, why it could happen today, and more...

davidjeremiah.blog

 

[Metwannabe]

Well according to my part of Christianity, this idea of rapture certain denominations have isn't the way it's supposed to be.

Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?


Answer: No. The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.

1. But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress to rapture enthusiasts. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as we look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”


“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!


That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the Protestant “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!


The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.


And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”


So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.


In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Additional comments:
The real issue (not often clear in people’s minds) is not the idea of a rapture (Christians being taken up or ‘translated’ to be with the Lord) but rather the timing of the rapture in relation to the Lord’s second coming. The controversial (and quite obviously erroneous) idea is what is called the pre- or mid- tribulation rapture. The effect of this non-biblical idea is that at some point before “the end of the age” (before the Lord’s second coming), Christians would disappear from the world, leaving behind a lot of people who would then face the awful years of the tribulation.


This idea, however, is neither biblical nor credible. The idea that not just many cars but also jetliners would be left without drivers and pilots is simply beyond credibility, and by no means called for by a sound reading of the Bible.


Perhaps the most compelling argument against the pre/mid tribulation rapture theory is that no Christian believed it or even knew about it for the first 1800 years of Christianity. When it comes to Christianity, the “faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3), there is simple rule: “if its new, it just can’t be true!”

I didn't base my belief of the rapture and being left behind on any book other than God's word, I never read the Left Behind series. The rapture and Jesus' second coming are not the exact same thing, one will occur before the other. Christians will be taken up to meet Christ and removed from the earth, spared the tribulation period and then after that 7 yr period Christ will return to reign on earth for 1000 years. There of course will be a judgment day, where all will answer for their actions, those covered by the blood of Christ will not face damnation those that are not will be tossed into the furnace of fire.

 

[Rain Cold]

Left Behind series was ?

 

[Sandbar]

God isn't a what but a who. He is the creator of all things, he was, is and always will be. He is Yahweh, the great I Am, the Three-in-One, my Heavenly Father whom I will spend eternity with. When we start trying to define who God is based on anything other than what His word tells us, it dangerous territory to tread.

Well we don't disagree on the divine creator. What changed for me was my connection or lack thereof to the bible. I see it for what is, a library not just a book and a guide to living a clean, moral life full of fascinating stories written by righteous men interpreting the word of god. I can't see it as the final word on everything that has happened on earth and in the universe or to what my eternal being is dependent on but don't begrudge anyone that does. I have to live with the fact that I killed dozens upon dozens of people. Other humans that while not good people that did evil things, they were humans with families and children of god. How do you come to terms with that as a person of faith? Am I going to hell? I wrestled with whether or not I should put my faith in a book written by men just like me or go direct to the source. I had no idea that was possible until I took the journey to heal myself but I found my answers just as my native American ancestors did thousands of years ago, with plant medicine. Our consciousness is who we are not the suit we were born into. When you take the medicine you experience death of ego and rebirth that is identical to what people experience when they have near death experiences. You experience a divine connection to everything in the universe and you become "the light". You go back to the source of everything that is, was and ever will be. It's a feeling of love and bliss that cannot be described in words it is so powerful. That's when it opened my eyes to who I am, why I am here and where I'm going. I no longer fear death because it doesn't exist. We are god. Me, you, everyone and everything on this planet comes from the same thing, the light! We are here to experience the greatest of creations, the physical world we live in and when we pass on that's exactly it. Our consciousness, our soul goes back to source which is the light. What's beyond that I don't know but that is the ultimate gem. So what changed in me? I dropped "religion" for spirituality which in my mind is the way our creator intended us to have a relationship with while in our earthly bodies. I don't discount the bible I just no longer allow it to shackle my train of thought. I just opened my mind to other possibilities that gods wonderful creation has to offer. Hopefully that clears some things up. I no longer feel that religion has a hold on me

 

[Rain Cold]

Well according to my part of Christianity, this idea of rapture certain denominations have isn't the way it's supposed to be.

Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?


Answer: No. The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.

1. But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress to rapture enthusiasts. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as we look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”


“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!


That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the Protestant “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!


The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.


And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”


So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.


In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Additional comments:
The real issue (not often clear in people’s minds) is not the idea of a rapture (Christians being taken up or ‘translated’ to be with the Lord) but rather the timing of the rapture in relation to the Lord’s second coming. The controversial (and quite obviously erroneous) idea is what is called the pre- or mid- tribulation rapture. The effect of this non-biblical idea is that at some point before “the end of the age” (before the Lord’s second coming), Christians would disappear from the world, leaving behind a lot of people who would then face the awful years of the tribulation.


This idea, however, is neither biblical nor credible. The idea that not just many cars but also jetliners would be left without drivers and pilots is simply beyond credibility, and by no means called for by a sound reading of the Bible.


Perhaps the most compelling argument against the pre/mid tribulation rapture theory is that no Christian believed it or even knew about it for the first 1800 years of Christianity. When it comes to Christianity, the “faith once delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3), there is simple rule: “if its new, it just can’t be true!”

The pre/postmillenniamism debate is actually a good discussion topic. The good thing is, no matter which side you come down on, it's completely irrelevant to core theology = things like the Trinity, the diety of Christ, the sovereignty of God, salvation, how to live a Godly life, etc.

Non-Christians love to use these kinds of things as wedge issues to try and sew discord or produce a gotcha pertaining to the overall validity of the faith.

 

[thundersnow]

I believe much of Matthew 24 was a prophecy about the coming destruction of Jerusalem (including the temple) in AD 70. We now live post those events and await Jesus’ return.

Last year, I had the opportunity to go to Israel and tour the Holy Lands (amazing trip if you ever have the chance!). Archaeological finds in Jerusalem show the events that happened in that time period.

Photos of the stones of the temple mount where they fell in AD 70 (Matthew 24:2)… and also where some fleeing the Roman assault were taken.

 

[Sandbar]

No disrespect to anyone who practices organized religion. We are still brothers in Christ I just made a personal choice to take the journey to spirituality. Some may totally disagree with this and that's ok too! I post this because this is exactly how I felt before I took the leap

 

[Metwannabe]

Well we don't disagree on the divine creator. What changed for me was my connection or lack thereof to the bible. I see it for what is, a library not just a book and a guide to living a clean, moral life full of fascinating stories written by righteous men interpreting the word of god. I can't see it as the final word on everything that has happened on earth and in the universe or to what my eternal being is dependent on but don't begrudge anyone that does. I have to live with the fact that I killed dozens upon dozens of people. Other humans that while not good people that did evil things, they were humans with families and children of god. How do you come to terms with that as a person of faith? Am I going to hell? I wrestled with whether or not I should put my faith in a book written by men just like me or go direct to the source. I had no idea that was possible until I took the journey to heal myself but I found my answers just as my native American ancestors did thousands of years ago, with plant medicine. Our consciousness is who we are not the suit we were born into. When you take the medicine you experience death of ego and rebirth that is identical to what people experience when they have near death experiences. You experience a divine connection to everything in the universe and you become "the light". You go back to the source of everything that is, was and ever will be. It's a feeling of love and bliss that cannot be described in words it is so powerful. That's when it opened my eyes to who I am, why I am here and where I'm going. I no longer fear death because it doesn't exist. We are god. Me, you, everyone and everything on this planet comes from the same thing, the light! We are here to experience the greatest of creations, the physical world we live in and when we pass on that's exactly it. Our consciousness, our soul goes back to source which is the light. What's beyond that I don't know but that is the ultimate gem. So what changed in me? I dropped "religion" for spirituality which in my mind is the way our creator intended us to have a relationship with while in our earthly bodies. I don't discount the bible I just no longer allow it to shackle my train of thought. I just opened my mind to other possibilities that gods wonderful creation has to offer. Hopefully that clears some things up. I no longer feel that religion has a hold on me

A lot to unpack here and tbh I don't have much time nor am I the most elaborate or smartest to do so lol. You will get no argument from me on moving away from religion, I tell people often, I don't have religion I have a relationship. Speaking of which, I do have one question: where does Jesus fit into this spiritual journey you've embarked?

 

[Metwannabe]

I believe much of Matthew 24 was a prophecy about the coming destruction of Jerusalem (including the temple) in AD 70. We now live post those events and await Jesus’ return.

Last year, I had the opportunity to go to Israel and tour the Holy Lands (amazing trip if you ever have the chance!). Archaeological finds in Jerusalem show the events that happened in that time period.

Photos of the stones of the temple mount where they fell in AD 70 (Matthew 24:2)… and also where some fleeing the Roman assault were taken.

I've never been but would love too, walking the paths that Jesus walked, touching the stones, seeing the sites has got to be breathtaking and emotional

 

[Sandbar]

A lot to unpack here and tbh I don't have much time nor am I the most elaborate or smartest to do so lol. You will get no argument from me on moving away from religion, I tell people often, I don't have religion I have a relationship. Speaking of which, I do have one question: where does Jesus fit into this spiritual journey you've embarked?

I am closer to God and Jesus than I have ever been! You actually said it best, "I have a relationship". This personal connection is in my mind how it's supposed to be. I no longer look UP at god as some powerful entity in the sky if that makes sense. I now see him in everything and everybody around me and in front of me. We are all made up of the same thing. we are light, vibration and frequency just like everything in the cosmos. I meditate twice a day. I spend that time just breathing and as crazy as this sounds you can after time feel your own vibration. There is nothing more liberating than feeling that connection through something as simple as focusing on the very process that keeps us alive! When you learn to get out of your own way and connect with your consciousness it changes your perception of everything. You can look at your arms, legs, head, whatever as those are things your eyes see. Your conscience is YOU and that's what transitions when you shed your birthday suit and go home.

 

[Iceagewhereartthou]

No disrespect to anyone who practices organized religion. We are still brothers in Christ I just made a personal choice to take the journey to spirituality. Some may totally disagree with this and that's ok too! I post this because this is exactly how I felt before I took the leap

View attachment 136039

It might help to first tell how you define religion. Here is the Merriam Webster:

1. a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2. : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
: commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
3. : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

How do you define it? Many people think of religion as some variation of "a set of rules to live life by or earn favor of a god." In this case, Christianity would not be considered a religion as it's not a set of rules to follow to earn or gain favor. Quite the contrary; Christianity holds that 1. we have been separated from God, 2. we cannot earn our way to God because we are fallen and, 3. we therefore need a specific path to bridge the separation between us. It would, however, fit in the general sense of 1 and 2 above; so it's important to define.

Your chart above has several points I would strongly take issue with. The first is a strict and false dichotomy between religion and spirituality. Religion (in the general sense) is not just based in fear or someone trying to avoid Hell. If you think of Christianity as a religion, it is based on seeking a relationship with God for the purposes of love and communion, NOT fear.

This just scratches the surface but there is a lot here I would disagree with.

 

[Iceagewhereartthou]

I am closer to God and Jesus than I have ever been! You actually said it best, "I have a relationship". This personal connection is in my mind how it's supposed to be. I no longer look UP at god as some powerful entity in the sky if that makes sense. I now see him in everything and everybody around me and in front of me. We are all made up of the same thing. we are light, vibration and frequency just like everything in the cosmos. I meditate twice a day. I spend that time just breathing and as crazy as this sounds you can after time feel your own vibration. There is nothing more liberating than feeling that connection through something as simple as focusing on the very process that keeps us alive! When you learn to get out of your own way and connect with your consciousness it changes your perception of everything. You can look at your arms, legs, head, whatever as those are things your eyes see. Your conscience is YOU and that's what transitions when you shed your birthday suit and go home.

I would just say be careful with this. The Christian God is a Holy entity, not a version of The Force. You seem to be talking about someting closer to New Age or Pantheism; ie god is everywhere and everything.

 

[Sandbar]

It might help to first tell how you define religion. Here is the Merriam Webster:

1. a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2. : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
: commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
3. : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

How do you define it? Many people think of religion as some variation of "a set of rules to live life by or earn favor of a god." In this case, Christianity would not be considered a religion as it's not a set of rules to follow to earn or gain favor. Quite the contrary; Christianity holds that 1. we have been separated from God, 2. we cannot earn our way to God because we are fallen and, 3. we therefore need a specific path to bridge the separation between us. It would, however, fit in the general sense of 1 and 2 above; so it's important to define.

Your chart above has several points I would strongly take issue with. The first is a strict and false dichotomy between religion and spirituality. Religion (in the general sense) is not just based in fear or someone trying to avoid Hell. If you think of Christianity as a religion, it is based on seeking a relationship with God for the purposes of love and communion, NOT fear.

This just scratches the surface but there is a lot here I would disagree with.

It's ok if you disagree with all of it! My journey is different from yours and everyone else's. I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong in any way, I just found that I am now in a place that my relationship with my creator is not one based on following a path put in front of me by anyone but myself. This journey is very new to me so I'm still in discovery phase. Where I used to think of god as singular I now think of god as everything.

 

[Sandbar]

I would just say be careful with this. The Christian God is a Holy entity, not a version of The Force. You seem to be talking about someting closer to New Age or Pantheism; ie god is everywhere and everything.

What do I need to be careful of? The "christian god" is the very "label" I sought to remove myself from. When I was a kid I was drug to church. When I got married I went because it pleased my wife. When I was deployed I went to our chaplains service because that's what I was raised to do. My time now is spent in meditation with just me, the breath my creator breathed in to me and my conscience that is quieted and clear. I have never been more at peace or closer to the creator. Not because my way is better but because there is no wrong way in my opinion. I still read the bible I just see it in a very, very different way

 

[Rain Cold]

What do I need to be careful of? The "christian god" is the very "label" I sought to remove myself from. When I was a kid I was drug to church. When I got married I went because it pleased my wife. When I was deployed I went to our chaplains service because that's what I was raised to do. My time now is spent in meditation with just me, the breath my creator breathed in to me and my conscience that is quieted and clear. I have never been more at peace or closer to the creator. Not because my way is better but because there is no wrong way in my opinion. I still read the bible I just see it in a very, very different way

The God of the Bible, I think he was talking about. And I would agree. I was going to say something similar but I've been out all day.

Spiritualism and religion are subjective terms. Neither defines God or worshiping God.

The Bible clearly identifies God as an entity who is creator, sustainer, and sovereign over all creation. It does not define God AS creation. In fact the Bible is clear in it's warning about identifying God as such. God and God alone is to be worshiped and recognized as God. We are to praise God for creation, yes. But we are not to worship him in or through or by creation.

He created all - material things, the energy you feel, the vibration you recognize, the air you feel when you focus on your breath. These things are not God and we are not to be one in mind and spirit with them. Creation (all of those things) declare the glory of God. They are absolutely not God.

That's where the admonition to be careful comes from. That said, it only applies if you are going to use the Bible as the baseline. If you want to create an image of God in your own way (and many people do), you can do that, in spite of the warnings of Scripture.

In the end, God is indeed everywhere. And everything has his fingerprint upon it. But he is not a tree or a bird or the water or the wind or the vast expanse of space or the energy that connects everything or even life itself. He created all of those things and we are to praise him and worship him for it. But we are not to come to him through those things, not according to the Bible.

 

[Sandbar]

The God of the Bible, I think he was talking about. And I would agree. I was going to say something similar but I've been out all day.

Spiritualism and religion are subjective terms. Neither defines God or worshiping God.

The Bible clearly identifies God as an entity who is creator, sustainer, and sovereign over all creation. It does not define God AS creation. In fact the Bible is clear in it's warning about identifying God as such. God and God alone is to be worshiped and recognized as God. We are to praise God for creation, yes. But we are not to worship him in or through or by creation.

He created all - material things, the energy you feel, the vibration you recognize, the air you feel when you focus on your breath. These things are not God and we are not to be one in mind and spirit with them. Creation (all of those things) declare the glory of God. They are absolutely not God.

That's where the admonition to be careful comes from. That said, it only applies if you are going to use the Bible as the baseline. If you want to create an image of God in your own way (and many people do), you can do that, in spite of the warnings of Scripture.

In the end, God is indeed everywhere. And everything has his fingerprint upon it. But he is not a tree or a bird or the water or the wind or the vast expanse of space or the energy that connects everything or even life itself. He created all of those things and we are to praise him and worship him for it. But we are not to come to him through those things, not according to the Bible.

This is where we differ now. I look at ancient sumerian civilizations that inhabited earth before there was a bible. Long before scripture. Did god put the semarians on earth? If he did as we both believe as the creator of all why should I believe the bible is the end all be all of who or what god is? God is light, he is energy, he is frequency. I'm not sure why that is so easily dismissed. We as humans understand the physical world we live in because we can see it, touch it and describe it with language or drawings. What makes one religion right and the other wrong? It makes sense to me that if I am to connect with a devine creator, I'm not going to make the connection I desire in the physical realm with which I exist at present. In my mind the connection is what's important to God not the manner in which we partake in that process. I still enjoy and am fascinated by the bible in a historical sense I just no longer feel it's my ticket to eternity.