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Misc All Things Religious

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There's bad apples in every group. The church is led by flawed people there's always going to be people that makes mistakes. That's the reason people don't want to go to church because they're told that everything's got to be perfect and everybody's got to be perfect.
I don’t know, I guess everyone has different experiences. I didn’t grow up in a church, but when I was in high school and doing things I shouldn’t, it was the evangelical “reach out” type that brought me food, clothes, and invited me in. So I am thankful for people that are bold enough to speak and reach out. Church members who stay confined to their 4 walls as some liberals expect, they can’t help me because they can’t reach me.
 
I don’t know, I guess everyone has different experiences. I didn’t grow up in a church, but when I was in high school and doing things I shouldn’t, it was the evangelical “reach out” type that brought me food, clothes, and invited me in. So I am thankful for people that are bold enough to speak and reach out. Church members who stay confined to their 4 walls as some liberals expect, they can’t help me because they can’t reach me.
The church is too concerned about the rapture and doing so takes their emphasis away from what needs helped. I guess there's no use then trying to fix problems if you think you're going to be leaving soon.
 
The church is too concerned about the rapture and doing so takes their emphasis away from what needs helped. I guess there's no use then trying to fix problems if you think you're going to be leaving soon.
I guess the only difference between previous generations who spoke of the rapture vs today, is that today we have the technology for it to happen.
 
The thing is, the evangelical version of Christianity in America has harmed untold thousands and thousands of individuals. Does "losing my pride" mean that if I'm a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I cant be part of a Christian community? If I'm a woman, I cant preach? Is that what you're getting at? Like Dr. Barber has said, why does the american church talk so much about what god talks so little and why do we talk so little about what god talks so much about?

Also, if we're going to quote Matthew to people, I'm going to need someone to pass on to the folks at Asbury that they need to read Matthew 6: 5-7.
"Christianity" has harmed many people because it's adherents are fallen and imperfect beings, who, no matter hard they try to practice fidelity, will always fall short of the model; Jesus Himself. On the other hand, true love and care from Christians have also helped untold millions over the years, including said Christians.

I think losing pride means not looking to self to define what is right and wrong, recognizing that the Creator and Lord is the moral arbiter, not me. Acknowledging that I am fallen and cannot save myself or others. Not trying to place my self higher or even to God, or be my own god. Not losing sight of who truly creates, forgives, and saves.

I am not sure where the idea that an LGBT person cannot be part of a Christian community comes from. A Christian community is made up of sinners, including me. My sins don't relate directly to LGBT, but I have other sins. All of us are welcome to be part of a Christian community, but such a community will and should challenge people to examine their lives, point out sin, and encourage them to let go of that sin. Not only is that healthy for individuals but the community as well.

As for women not preaching; that is not a universal direction. The passage you are probably referencing; 1 Corinthians, 14:34 was a letter specifically to the church officials in Corinth, it was basically a total mess with no structure or leadership. The Bible is very clear on the importance, value, and equality of women.
 
"Christianity" has harmed many people because it's adherents are fallen and imperfect beings, who, no matter hard they try to practice fidelity, will always fall short of the model; Jesus Himself. On the other hand, true love and care from Christians have also helped untold millions over the years, including said Christians.

I think losing pride means not looking to self to define what is right and wrong, recognizing that the Creator and Lord is the moral arbiter, not me. Acknowledging that I am fallen and cannot save myself or others. Not trying to place my self higher or even to God, or be my own god. Not losing sight of who truly creates, forgives, and saves.

I am not sure where the idea that an LGBT person cannot be part of a Christian community comes from. A Christian community is made up of sinners, including me. My sins don't relate directly to LGBT, but I have other sins. All of us are welcome to be part of a Christian community, but such a community will and should challenge people to examine their lives, point out sin, and encourage them to let go of that sin. Not only is that healthy for individuals but the community as well.

As for women not preaching; that is not a universal direction. The passage you are probably referencing; 1 Corinthians, 14:34 was a letter specifically to the church officials in Corinth, it was basically a total mess with no structure or leadership. The Bible is very clear on the importance, value, and equality of women.
I think the idea comes from the left. I doubt there are many people living in sin that care to enter a church parking lot, much less inside. I don’t know, I enjoy going to a church that preaches sin, forgiveness, outreach, and helping others. Highly doubt you see many in the LBGTQ community wanting to go to a church. I guess my sin vs theirs is the fact that I don’t enjoy sin or the consequences thereof, and I’m certainly not proud of it. The organizations like what you mentioned ARE proud of their sin and want others to join in it.
 
"Christianity" has harmed many people because it's adherents are fallen and imperfect beings, who, no matter hard they try to practice fidelity, will always fall short of the model; Jesus Himself. On the other hand, true love and care from Christians have also helped untold millions over the years, including said Christians.

I think losing pride means not looking to self to define what is right and wrong, recognizing that the Creator and Lord is the moral arbiter, not me. Acknowledging that I am fallen and cannot save myself or others. Not trying to place my self higher or even to God, or be my own god. Not losing sight of who truly creates, forgives, and saves.

I am not sure where the idea that an LGBT person cannot be part of a Christian community comes from. A Christian community is made up of sinners, including me. My sins don't relate directly to LGBT, but I have other sins. All of us are welcome to be part of a Christian community, but such a community will and should challenge people to examine their lives, point out sin, and encourage them to let go of that sin. Not only is that healthy for individuals but the community as well.

As for women not preaching; that is not a universal direction.The passage you are probably referencing; 1 Corinthians, 14:34 was a letter specifically to the church officials in Corinth, it was basically a total mess with no structure or leadership. The Bible is very clear on the importance, value, and equality of women.

Not to be picky but does Paul telling the Corinthians that is is wrong for that man to have his fathers wife mean it was just for the Corinthians as well?

Gotta be real careful if we start believing the idea that the letters to the churches in the NT only apply to certain cultures.
 
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I think the idea comes from the left. I doubt there are many people living in sin that care to enter a church parking lot, much less inside. I don’t know, I enjoy going to a church that preaches sin, forgiveness, outreach, and helping others. Highly doubt you see many in the LBGTQ community wanting to go to a church. I guess my sin vs theirs is the fact that I don’t enjoy sin or the consequences thereof, and I’m certainly not proud of it. The organizations like what you mentioned ARE proud of their sin and want others to join in it.
I do know of some LGBT people who have sought out church and acknowledge God, and some who are Christians. Often their struggle is "can I continue in this lifestyle and still be a Christian, will the church accept me, etc?" I think the biggest source of confusion here is that we stopped calling sin what it is. Sex outside of marriage became so common and people were having so much fun doing it that people stopped calling it sin. If we don't think of it as sin then why struggle against it at all; why not just go with what feels right? Same thing with LGBT. People wanted to remove the association with sin because they wanted to engage rather than fight it. Add in "pride" of being different from the majority and make it only about emotion and "how I'm born" and we end up where we are now. But if God exists and gives us the moral code, we don't get to make the rules. It's not about we want or how we feel. When we make it about that we are acting as if we are God, which brings us back to pride.
 
Not to be picky but does Paul telling the Corinthians that is is wrong for that man to have his fathers wife mean it was just the Corinthians as well?

Gotta be real careful if we start believing the idea that the letters to the churches in the NT only apply to certain cultures.
I absolutely agree with you on that!
I think in this case, Paul was writing this specifically to call attention to this issue because they were doing just that; sleeping with father's wives (as well as other perversions). Or basically, "You guys are embracing this, stop doing it" (no I'm not trying to change Paul's words).
For all of us, the commandment is already covered; we are allowed to have sex within the context of a committed marriage between and man and a woman only, so not having sex with a father's wife or any other wife, for that matter, should already be apparent. They thought they were special and could get away with it and Paul was calling them out on it.
 
I think the idea comes from the left. I doubt there are many people living in sin that care to enter a church parking lot, much less inside. I don’t know, I enjoy going to a church that preaches sin, forgiveness, outreach, and helping others. Highly doubt you see many in the LBGTQ community wanting to go to a church. I guess my sin vs theirs is the fact that I don’t enjoy sin or the consequences thereof, and I’m certainly not proud of it. The organizations like what you mentioned ARE proud of their sin and want others to join in it.
Many don't consider it a sin, or they have found what they believe to be justification for living that lifestyle. My sister is gay and goes to a church that affirms that is ok and completely acceptable to God. You'd never guess that the preacher is also a woman. The Bible is very clear on both of those items. We may not like it or want to accept it, and we may find pressure to discard the Bible's teachings as arcane, but that is just us serving our human nature and desires rather than God's desire. And it fits with the whole adapted "Love your neighbor" or Live and let live" ideas that get frequently tossed around to deflect the SIN part of the discussion away from right v wrong onto something more socially appealing: Love aka Self Gratification aka I Am My Own God And You Should Be OK With It.
 
Many don't consider it a sin, or they have found what they believe to be justification for living that lifestyle. My sister is gay and goes to a church that affirms that is ok and completely acceptable to God. You'd never guess that the preacher is also a woman. The Bible is very clear on both of those items. We may not like it or want to accept it, and we may find pressure to discard the Bible's teachings as arcane, but that is just us serving our human nature and desires rather than God's desire. And it fits with the whole adapted "Love your neighbor" or Live and let live" ideas that get frequently tossed around to deflect the SIN part of the discussion away from right v wrong onto something more socially appealing: Love aka Self Gratification aka I Am My Own God And You Should Be OK With It.
Jesus also taught repentance as you mentioned go and sin no more, He didn't just love without admonishing. Choices have consequences even while He loves all unconditionally. He also taught about something else more than anyone in the Bible because it's very real, but it's not a feel good topic and that's hell. Hell is real and without Jesus it is one's destination, it's why He died for all but the choice is individual. My prayer is for anyone who doesn't know Him would do so before it's eternally too late, it truly breaks my heart to see lost individuals.
 
"Christianity" has harmed many people because it's adherents are fallen and imperfect beings, who, no matter hard they try to practice fidelity, will always fall short of the model; Jesus Himself. On the other hand, true love and care from Christians have also helped untold millions over the years, including said Christians.

I think losing pride means not looking to self to define what is right and wrong, recognizing that the Creator and Lord is the moral arbiter, not me. Acknowledging that I am fallen and cannot save myself or others. Not trying to place my self higher or even to God, or be my own god. Not losing sight of who truly creates, forgives, and saves.

I am not sure where the idea that an LGBT person cannot be part of a Christian community comes from. A Christian community is made up of sinners, including me. My sins don't relate directly to LGBT, but I have other sins. All of us are welcome to be part of a Christian community, but such a community will and should challenge people to examine their lives, point out sin, and encourage them to let go of that sin. Not only is that healthy for individuals but the community as well.

As for women not preaching; that is not a universal direction. The passage you are probably referencing; 1 Corinthians, 14:34 was a letter specifically to the church officials in Corinth, it was basically a total mess with no structure or leadership. The Bible is very clear on the importance, value, and equality of women.
Let me understand you ..... So, you are acknowledging that LGBT is a sin? ..... Just making sure I understand your post. As for the second bolded part ..... God made woman as a helper to the man. They are not equal.
I Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Genesis 3:16 (God's words to Eve) "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".
So, according to the KJV, God does not view women as equals to the man.
 
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Let me understand you ..... So, you are acknowledging that LGBT is a sin? ..... Just making sure I understand your post. As for the second bolded part ..... God made woman as a helper to the man. They are not equal.
I Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Genesis 3:16 (God's words to Eve) "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".
So, according to the KJV, God does not view women as equals to the man.
Practicing LGBT tendencies and behaviors is sin, as it is against the nature of how God made us and separates us from Him. Just as sex outside of marriage and infidelity do as well. Anything that causes separation from God or violates the image of God in another person, or in us, is sin. I was pointing out that I do not struggle with sins related to LGBT issues but I have plenty others that I struggle with, such as pride, lust, greed, and wanting to do things my own way.

It would be interesting to see the Greek words for "rule over thee." I know the Greek words for submission used for wives is different than that used for slave/master (which was really indentured servitude) and parent/child. I think we need to be specific with the word "equal." Women have equal value and worth as people to men, but their roles are not equal. Men and women have different roles, much like roles on a team, but that does not make either less or more valuable. The fact that women were created to compliment men, and in a way that men also compliment them, is indicative of equal value.
Additionally, (starting with Ephesians 5:21) beyond the submission called for by a wife, both husbands and wives are called to submit to each other in marriage out of submission to Christ, with the husband even being called to a sacrificial love to his wife, as Christ sacrificed himself for the body of believers; meaning even to give his life for her.
 
Practicing LGBT tendencies and behaviors is sin, as it is against the nature of how God made us and separates us from Him. Just as sex outside of marriage and infidelity do as well. Anything that causes separation from God or violates the image of God in another person, or in us, is sin. I was pointing out that I do not struggle with sins related to LGBT issues but I have plenty others that I struggle with, such as pride, lust, greed, and wanting to do things my own way.

It would be interesting to see the Greek words for "rule over thee." I know the Greek words for submission used for wives is different than that used for slave/master (which was really indentured servitude) and parent/child. I think we need to be specific with the word "equal." Women have equal value and worth as people to men, but their roles are not equal. Men and women have different roles, much like roles on a team, but that does not make either less or more valuable. The fact that women were created to compliment men, and in a way that men also compliment them, is indicative of equal value.
Additionally, (starting with Ephesians 5:21) beyond the submission called for by a wife, both husbands and wives are called to submit to each other in marriage out of submission to Christ, with the husband even being called to a sacrificial love to his wife, as Christ sacrificed himself for the body of believers; meaning even to give his life for her.

I truly believe if we husbands really knew the level of responsibility required of us, we’d triple our time on our knees.
 
I truly believe if we husbands really knew the level of responsibility required of us, we’d triple our time on our knees.
Excellent post. I imagine almost none of us have any real understanding of this. I imagine it is impossible for us to set aside our selfishness and personal wants enough to really see our wives in a Godly way, and our kids as well. Imagine if both wives and husbands could truly live out the sacrifices and commitment that a Christian marriage calls for. Think about what that would truly look like, and how much that would affect parenting as well. What a different world it would be.
 
Let me understand you ..... So, you are acknowledging that LGBT is a sin? ..... Just making sure I understand your post. As for the second bolded part ..... God made woman as a helper to the man. They are not equal.
I Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Genesis 3:16 (God's words to Eve) "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee".
So, according to the KJV, God does not view women as equals to the man.
Why would you reference only the KJV? Are you an FIB?
 
I truly believe if we husbands really knew the level of responsibility required of us, we’d triple our time on our knees.
Amen x 1000. A man is charged to be the spiritual leader of his household. To love his wife the way Christ loved the Church. Just let that really sink in.
I'm saved because of what Jesus did for me. He alone made the way possible and nothing I did or could ever do can earn me salvation. I am so blessed to have a relationship with him. That being said, Thank God I want ever have to give an account for my sins. Jesus washed me white as snow through his shed blood.
However , God holds me accountable to be the spiritual leader at my house. It is the biggest assignment/mission field I have as a follower/believer of Jesus Christ. So it is on me to make sure I walk the talk. Love my wife the way Christ loved the church and teach my kids who the Lord is , how much he loves them and He, not me knows what's best for them. Then its up to them individually to make their own choice whether or not to surrender to God and follow his lead.
 
Jesus wants a relationship with his followers. Not for them to be just some religious person.
Love how this is illustrated. Imagine a man and his wife married. The only time they got around each other was for 1 hour a week. They would meet at a place, sit in a room, perhaps talk a few words. Then go out the door and not converse, check up with each other until 7 more days had passed. Or perhaps the only time they would meet, was only on a couple of Holidays each year for say 1 hour.
Do we think this would be a healthy relationship? How close would they really be? Might I add perhaps they aren't really husband and wife. Oh maybe they had a ceremony, got a license on this big day several years ago and said they where husband and wife. But do they really even know each other?
Being a Christian is entering into a binding relationship that last for eternity. Its Free to us. Jesus paid it all, the ticket for admission into this relationship. I challenge anyone, including myself to devout time daily to get to know, converse with the one on the other end of the relationship ( Jesus). Just like in marriage, the more you invest in your spouse, the healthier, stronger that relationship becomes. You also value it more. Same thing applies to our relationship with Jesus. The best investment you will ever make , is investing more time and depending on Jesus.
 
No, I just believe that the KJV is the true word of God. I don't put much stock in any other translations. Always go with the Holy Bible KJV.
The KJV is a translation like other translations of the Bible (or manuscripts in the original languages) into the English language before and after it. But, I don’t know that you can say that it is the only “true” word of God and nothing else is (if that is what you’re saying). I would be uncomfortable saying that the group of translators commissioned during the reign of King James in the early 1600s had some kind of special guidance and that we can’t trust anyone else in a later time to ever do it again. I will say that I take issue with some things some translations do. There are strengths and weaknesses of every translation. The primary issue with the KJV now is how the English language has changed and continues changing, such that it’s getting inaccessible to the modern reader, who may stumble over archaic older English words and word forms that we don’t use anymore or at least in that way. I’ve personally been using the ESV (English Standard Version) in recent years. This is where everyone has to study and discern. If the KJV is where you’re comfortable, then that’s where you are, as long as you are reading and understanding your Bible.
 
The KJV is a translation like other translations of the Bible (or manuscripts in the original languages) into the English language before and after it. But, I don’t know that you can say that it is the only “true” word of God and nothing else is (if that is what you’re saying). I would be uncomfortable saying that the group of translators commissioned during the reign of King James in the early 1600s had some kind of special guidance and that we can’t trust anyone else in a later time to ever do it again. I will say that I take issue with some things some translations do. There are strengths and weaknesses of every translation. The primary issue with the KJV now is how the English language has changed and continues changing, such that it’s getting inaccessible to the modern reader, who may stumble over archaic older English words and word forms that we don’t use anymore or at least in that way. I’ve personally been using the ESV (English Standard Version) in recent years. This is where everyone has to study and discern. If the KJV is where you’re comfortable, then that’s where you are, as long as you are reading and understanding your Bible.
For many many years, the Holy Bible (KJV) has been taught to the most un-educated folks, and they could understand it just fine. If you read the book of The Revelation, it clearly states in chapter 22.....
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life. I would not want to be the that person who left out something.... or added something ...... do you follow me? Better to stick with the Bible of my father, grandfather, and my great-grandfather before him. ".......Think on these things"
 
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