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Misc All Things Religious
- Thread starter Cad Wedge NC
- Start date
That is because the people will only end up on the same place if truth is indeed relative vs literal. Which all leads back to the first question, “If truth is relative, why does anything matter?”
Sandbar
Member
It doesn't which is the point. What is the truth? Is yours right and mine wrong? Truth is absolutely subjective and this is EXACTLY why I left the collective group think of religion. My spriritual journey is mine and mine only and I can't even begin to explain the stress, anxiety and weight lifted off my shoulders when I broke free. I no longer have to worry about judgement or living up to expectations other than my own. Spirituality is becoming more and more common among soldiers who have experienced trauma through years of war. It's not something easily explained to people who haven't gone through it or have had to deal with taking another humans life for no reason that makes any sense to a rational person
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
I get this is saying there are different ways to get to the same place (hence having different ways to equal 4) but that is a different argument than you were presenting earlier, where you repeatedly said there is no right or wrong way, truth is relative, and everyone can be right.
If you and I were in the woods and going to the same place, sure, there can be different routes. But what you seem to be saying is that everyone can have a different destination in the woods, take their own route to that destination, and each of them be "right." If there is a "right" one (as I have argued), then only one destination can be "the right one" (unless none of them happen to be it). But they cannot all be right simply because the all the people want them to be and don't like the right one.
The major world religions have different ideas about the afterlife, the nature of God (if any) and what Heaven is (if any). They are not the same destination in your woods. They cannot all be correct (if any of them are at all). But there is a truth out there (maybe one of these or none of these or none at all) and that truth is not relative or inclusive to all possibilities. 2+2 is 4 no matter what (2+2 is the path {3+1 is another path}, 4 is the destination).
Look at the bolded in all your posts. Then read your tag line at the bottom of your posts:
"There are two ways to do something. The right way, and again...."
Even your tag line talks about a "right way."
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
1. Is this a true statement?
2. And this is the real crux if the issue. Right here. You don't want to have to worry about judgement or living up to a standard other than your own. This is what it almost always boils down to for people who reject God. "I want to do what I want to do and no one (not even God) can tell me it's not ok."
Sandbar
Member
That's a saying we have in the SEAL teams. It doesn't have a thing to do with this discussion. I am trying to simplify this for you but you continue to complicate it so I will dumb it down even more. We both seek the eternal life journey back to source/god. You go your way and I go my way. You with your flock and me alone. Why can't people like you accept that? Is it because you have had it concreted into your head that there is just one group of special people with a special religion that go to a special place only because they went through some ritual created thousands of years ago that evil men said was "The Way"? Do you think Quran is just wrong? Is the Torah wrong? Is Hinduism wrong? You have dozens of bibles on top of that. They can't all be right in your line of thinking
Sandbar
Member
I haven't rejected god homie, I rejected religion. Big difference
Sandbar
Member
I hate copying and posting things but for the sake of trying to make my point I did find this and it says much of what I want to say because the topic of "The only way" always leads back to this. This is exactly why I say the bible is not the authority. I can find virgin births throughout history and far before the bible. We can find "Jesus" all over the place. We find Noah and the flood in multiple cultures far older than the bible. You can find the exact same crucifixion and resurrection stories throughout multiple cultures and multiple belief systems. The math just doesn't add up and it is very likely that people have misunderstood a lot of what they percieve is truth.....The gnostics knew this and of course we all know what followed. They were slaughtered by religous people
Copied and Pasted
First you have to ask if he really said that. The Bible for all it’s wisdom and knowledge isn’t a tape recorder. So we have to allow for a few variations - the original may have been in Greek, then translated to Aramaic, then to Latin, then to English… and a number of unusual meanings can sneak in along the way. For example, the “father, son and holy ghost” of the trinity has been mistranslated for some time. The original is pneuma - to breathe - so it’s the “father, son and breath.” Breath may me the “spark of life” or it could be what differentiates animals from plants.
But beyond that, breath may me “consciousness.” That the metaphor is the father (creator whoever that may be including ourselves) the son (the physical animal that inhabits this space) and the breath - the consciousness that makes us aware of who we are.
So when examining a phrase like “I am the way, the truth and the light” - first we have to look to see if anyone else says that sort of thing. There’s a statue in Persia where the sage Yuz Asaf says that phrase around the years 40 A.D. Yuz Asaf means “anointed one” - and he was preaching and traveling in Persia with his mother “Mary” of “virgin birth.” There’s a statue dedicated to him in Persia where the same phrase is used.
So is Yuz Asaf Jesus? Or was it a phrase used by others at the time? (I have a sneaking suspicion that Yuz Asaf is the same fellow mentioned in the Qu’ran who “survived the crucifixion” as is thought to be the case in India with regard to “Issa” as he’s known over there.)
So now we’re asking “what does that mean to say “I am the way?” It seems to imply “The path I am talking about is the path to take.” He could mean “It’s the only path to take” or it could mean “this is the path that I’ve observed that all humans take.” Two different meanings - then we have “I am the light” - is he talking about himself, or that humans are all composed of light? Or that the breathe of life is also light? Could be a variation of all three. But for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that what he meant (if he said this sentence in this way) is “I have the answers that you seek.” (Not that you should be “just like me” but that you should pay attention to what he’s saying.)
Now who is his father? Are we talking about God? He doesn’t say that - he could have said that, but he didn’t. “My father” doesn’t necessary mean who spawned him - he could use the same word to signify someone who “put him on the planet.” Is he talking about Joseph, the man who raised him, or is he talking about that Greek Roman soldier who Mary worked for as a servant and got pregnant by him (common in the era) and who married Joseph who raised her child out of wedlock? (Ben Pantera according to myth). Either way, if you’re speaking about the Creator - or source - you can use the same word.
So if he’s talking about the father of us all - then he may have meant “the only path to get back to the source is through unconditional love.” Easy to misinterpret that sentence in the light of the era and the day. It means essentially the same thing once we strip away all of the meanings that have been added over the centuries. So if he said it, and if it’s been translated properly, in light of the interviews he’s given in the book “Hacking the Afterlife” I would guess that what he meant by the sentence was “Hey, check out what I’m saying. If you love everyone unconditionally, you’ll have a glimpse of what it’s like on the flipside, where everyone goes once we’re done with the play here.”
Copied and Pasted
First you have to ask if he really said that. The Bible for all it’s wisdom and knowledge isn’t a tape recorder. So we have to allow for a few variations - the original may have been in Greek, then translated to Aramaic, then to Latin, then to English… and a number of unusual meanings can sneak in along the way. For example, the “father, son and holy ghost” of the trinity has been mistranslated for some time. The original is pneuma - to breathe - so it’s the “father, son and breath.” Breath may me the “spark of life” or it could be what differentiates animals from plants.
But beyond that, breath may me “consciousness.” That the metaphor is the father (creator whoever that may be including ourselves) the son (the physical animal that inhabits this space) and the breath - the consciousness that makes us aware of who we are.
So when examining a phrase like “I am the way, the truth and the light” - first we have to look to see if anyone else says that sort of thing. There’s a statue in Persia where the sage Yuz Asaf says that phrase around the years 40 A.D. Yuz Asaf means “anointed one” - and he was preaching and traveling in Persia with his mother “Mary” of “virgin birth.” There’s a statue dedicated to him in Persia where the same phrase is used.
So is Yuz Asaf Jesus? Or was it a phrase used by others at the time? (I have a sneaking suspicion that Yuz Asaf is the same fellow mentioned in the Qu’ran who “survived the crucifixion” as is thought to be the case in India with regard to “Issa” as he’s known over there.)
So now we’re asking “what does that mean to say “I am the way?” It seems to imply “The path I am talking about is the path to take.” He could mean “It’s the only path to take” or it could mean “this is the path that I’ve observed that all humans take.” Two different meanings - then we have “I am the light” - is he talking about himself, or that humans are all composed of light? Or that the breathe of life is also light? Could be a variation of all three. But for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that what he meant (if he said this sentence in this way) is “I have the answers that you seek.” (Not that you should be “just like me” but that you should pay attention to what he’s saying.)
Now who is his father? Are we talking about God? He doesn’t say that - he could have said that, but he didn’t. “My father” doesn’t necessary mean who spawned him - he could use the same word to signify someone who “put him on the planet.” Is he talking about Joseph, the man who raised him, or is he talking about that Greek Roman soldier who Mary worked for as a servant and got pregnant by him (common in the era) and who married Joseph who raised her child out of wedlock? (Ben Pantera according to myth). Either way, if you’re speaking about the Creator - or source - you can use the same word.
So if he’s talking about the father of us all - then he may have meant “the only path to get back to the source is through unconditional love.” Easy to misinterpret that sentence in the light of the era and the day. It means essentially the same thing once we strip away all of the meanings that have been added over the centuries. So if he said it, and if it’s been translated properly, in light of the interviews he’s given in the book “Hacking the Afterlife” I would guess that what he meant by the sentence was “Hey, check out what I’m saying. If you love everyone unconditionally, you’ll have a glimpse of what it’s like on the flipside, where everyone goes once we’re done with the play here.”
LickWx
Member
There’s Christian’s in here? News to me
Sandbar
Member
All manners of the abrahamic religions in here. I'm the only spiritual mutt who is going to hell in here for non-compliance that I am aware of......lol. I really don't mean to get the folks in here riled up but their isn't space for all of us in the afterworld apparently
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
This is another good example of where we disagree. "My way" won't get me to God; that's a major point here. I cannot get there on my own. I can choose to follow the way He has arranged for me (and all of us) or I can go the way I want to. If I want to be self righteous and go my own way I have that right, but that will not get me to God.
Again, to be clear; there is plenty of room for EVERYONE in Heaven, if indeed it exists. Be we cannot get there on our own power because we are broken beings, and that brokenness causes separation from God. He (not me and not you ) has arranged for us to be redeemed and reconciled. We have a choice to take it or not. Yes, we have to accept His way if we want it. Not my way, not the church's way, not the pastor's way, not the gnostics' way; His way. If I don't like it, I don't have to take it. Free will.
Sandbar
Member
The creator does not intervene in your life. The creator isn't a writer or a speaker or a human so how do you know what is expected of you to be judged on? Because you "think" the Bible is the word? All you are really doing here is regurgitating what someone else said thousands of years and you believe it because you are ignorant of everything else out there. No matter how you try to turn this you worship and serve out of nothing but fear and fear and love do not co. If for some reason you think the Bible is God's official word I point back to my previous post above yours. The Bible is not original and neither is the story. Jesus disappeared for 18 years in the Bible so where did he go? To the Egyptian mystery schools and Egypt. If you follow that you will understand why the gnostics were right. Jesus purpose was to incarnate, show us the way back and he ascended back to the highest the same as other ascended masters. He taught what he learned from Hinduism and other spiritual schools of knowledge. Many scholars make a strong case that his true teachings were gnostic hermeticism. You folks want this to be some magical fairy tale that comes true but Jesus isn't coming back. It's on you to find your way back brother and I don't think that's happening for you with your current understanding. At some point you have to start thinking logically to whatever degree you can find comfort in......
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
We will just disagree then, and that's fine. You are still making a ton of incorrect assumptions about me, my faith, and my journey. I disagree with almost all of your points and you apparently disagree with most of mine. You are free to believe what you want. If you truly think I am being illogical and only parroting what I was told out of fear as you repeatedly proclaim, then you have a right to think it. I am not going to try to respond to all your other points, partially because many of them have been addressed earlier in this thread, and ultimately because an online forum just isn't a sufficient arena to discuss it all.
Regardless, I truly enjoy the discussion, and I thank you for being open.
Sandbar
Member
I get it but it's difficult to discuss the whole without making it personal and I hope that's understood? If what I described isn't you at all then you aren't the problem and I applaud you but you are part of a religion that billions belong to. Do I come across as brash, yes but that's because I "am" making a point about the "whole" and that whole uses their holy book as a weapon of war and I couldn't stand for that any longer and I hope that maybe one day you guys will see it too. Your faith in what you believe isn't the issue, it's the fact that you folks feel like you have to be the only winner in the afterlife game and that's what you are being taught. I know that to be fact because I did the same thing to others for 45 years before I broke the chains......
Why does it bother you so that we belong to this "religion" if the ending is the same for all of us? I guess this is what I don't get, if all roads lead to the same place, why does anything matter?
Sandbar
Member
Because you use it as a weapon against those that don't believe as you do
YES YOU DO!
Sandbar
Member
What organized religion really needs is an enormous, gigantic upgrade. You are living your lives based on a book you call holy that is 2000 years old. Does that make sense to any of you? As long as you fill justified at killing your enemies because the bible says it's ok, when do you think the constant wars are going to stop because it's been non stop since biblical days. People are meaner now that they have ever been. They are more anxious and depressed than ever especially men so when do we start to heal? I participate in group sessions with other soldiers who have healed themselves through a more personal, spiritual connection as I have and this is the #1 issue we talk about. It took us all stepping back and looking at things from a more open minded perspective to see it, especially the war cries of the bible. When you lose more brothers to alcohol, drugs and suicide than you did in war that stress becomes overwhelming. The only help I got from the church at the time I was at my lowest was "we are praying for your healing". While I appreciated the genuine love it came from, prayers aren't stopping vets from blowing their brains out. When you are at your lowest you have nothing to lose so we roll the dice and try looking at healing from a different mindset than religion. It works for you guys and that's wonderful, I'm just trying to show you why it isn't working for so many others who have experienced the worst traumas you could think of. If religion and the bible were really about unconditional love and the reflection of our creators wishes we wouldn't be having this conversation right now
You are ALL good dudes and much respect I just wish you were more open minded here
You are ALL good dudes and much respect I just wish you were more open minded here
accu35
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I’ll pray for you!!
Sandbar
Member
Don't. If you want to help me donate to the foundation I support that helped me when others who prayed for me were wasted time. By donating other soldiers can get the help they need so they don't blow their brains out waiting on prayers to be answered
accu35
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to late