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You guys should check out the double slit experiment!
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Misc All Things Religious
- Thread starter Cad Wedge NC
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Agree 100% when my mom committed suicide I was taught as a FWB that she would go to hell. So that's when I began my deep dive into religion. As a parent I love my son I would never send him to burn for eternity.
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Exactly! No creator that loves you unconditionally and IS pure love would condemn you to a fiery hell because you sin. This Yayweh character in the bible (Old testament) is not the god who created our souls and the architect of the universe. Yahweh is Amen-Ra the creator of the material world. Sorry to hear about your mom man. From a spiritual standpoint this probably wasn't in her life plan. She simply reincarnates to do it over and you will eventually do the same. So will I. I had no right to take life even in war and that's karma that I have to take with me and no better time to start than the present life.......
Iceagewhereartthou
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You guys are making an age old argument that has been made countless times before by people all around the world; "How can a loving God send people to Hell?" I can't say I have all the answers but I think this one is actually pretty easy to address, and it's been addressed multiple times before in this thread.
Hell is, literally, complete separation from God. No goodness, no love, no pleasure, no enjoyable relationship, no beauty... nothing that is of the nature of God. Hell is a "Hellish" place specifically because there is none of God's nature there. Eternally, we are either going to be with God or separate from God. There is no in between, or a "little bit of Him", or back and forth. You either want to be with God or not. If you reject God then he will not force you to be with him eternally and so you are going to be separated from Him and everything in His nature. That is what Hell is; complete separation from God and his nature. If you want to be with Him, then you will be with Him fully and with every part of His nature.
A loving God you say? Yes. God loves you so much He will not force you to be with Him against your will. He sends other people, signs, His word, His son, beauty, and all sorts of things to show you who He is. But if you don't want Him he will leave you alone to your own desires, and if that is separation from Him, then that is what you will receive. A dictator would force you to be with him but He will not do that. He cannot force you to love Him; love has to be freely given or it is not love. The way to Heaven has been provided for all but you get to choose if you want it or not. It's as simple as that. It is ironic to me that people say things like, "I don't want God but I have serious objections with him sending me to Hell because of that." If a person does not want Him; Hell is the only possibility; it's the only place that is completely separate from Him and His nature.
Snowmann, I too am sorry to hear about your mother and my heart goes out to you. I know a lot of people say suicide means a person a cannot go to Heaven but I do not think that is consistent with what the Bible teaches. The Bible says that the only unforgivable sin is hardening of the heart. This also matches up with what I was explainig earlier; hardening one's heart to God is bascically shutting oneself off from Him so that there is complete separation. God will not force one to soften his heart but will allow the choice to be made. Go will not "forgive" that because He loves that individual too much to force them into His presence. Suicide is a tragic choice, but If your mother knew God and wanted to be with Him that choice can be forgiven.
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Iceagewhereartthou
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Perhaps one of the reasons you turned away from Christianity is that you have such a poor understanding of it. Most of your posts about God, Jesus, and Christian teachings are incredibly out of touch with them. I mean, you have some nuggets of truth in there, and make some valid points, but you aren't able to separate those nuggets out from a very convoluted set of beliefs that you think are about them; but in reality have nothing to do with them.The second coming will not be an ethereal man floating down to earth from the sky.
And if by some tiny chance it is, I will eat crow the rest of my days.
The second coming is a ๐ฌ๐ก๐ข๐๐ญ ๐ข๐ง ๐๐จ๐ง๐ฌ๐๐ข๐จ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ง๐๐ฌ๐ฌ.
Yes, a paradigm shift.
Jesus was a man that walked the earth as an ๐๐ฑ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ฅ๐.
The messiah-
In Abrahamic religions, a messiah is a savior or liberator of a group of people.
The word comes from the Hebrew word mashiach, which means "anointed one."
Or..
๐๐๐๐๐๐ซ ๐จ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ฎ๐ฌ๐
More generally, the term messiah can refer to a leader of a cause or someone who brings hope.
From what I have come to understand through 9 years of studies and personal experience, The Jesus in the bible from early Christian perspectives has been sorely distorted.
And this is why:
The Roman Catholic Church ruled with an iron fist.
Their cause was POWER.
Well, what is the most effective way to take power away from another person?
To instill fear.
Believe this way and you will be saved. And if you dont believe this way, you will be damned to hell and eternal damnation.
Good grief!
If God is love, which is what scriptures preach, than how can a loving God condemn His children to fire and brimstone if they are "supposedly" given FREE WILL to choose?
If you ask me, those 2 things cancel eachother out.
There is no merit.
There is no truth.
No foundation.
A distortion. A way to control people and siphon their TRUE God given, inherant power.
What the Christian religion taught me was that as long as I ask Jesus into my heart and believe he died on the cross for my sins, that I am forgiven.
What?
What I have come to understand is that Christ has ALWAYS been in my heart. That is where the power of Christ is.
Sacred Heart ring a bell?
And the sin part.. Ok dude, I believe we were all born into this world innocent, whether Eve ate from the apple or not, to me, is irrelevant.
Sin is of the flesh.
Just because my soul resides in the flesh does not mean that Im a sinner. Aint no saint either.
But THE WAY that Jesus preached about is not through worshipping him as an outside entity but rather as a Source that is inside of us as the human spirit.
By BEING Christ-like is THE WAY.. The path.
"I Am the way, the truth and the life."
John 14:6
Tune in.
If God chose to hide,
He would hide within man.
That is the last place man would look to find God.
Heaven is not a place in the sky.
Heaven is a state of consciousness and can be tuned into right where you stand, with your feet firmly planted on the earth.
By the way,
in the Bible, terrestrial appears in 1 Corinthians 15:40, where it is used to describe bodies that exist on Earth.
In this verse, Paul contrasts terrestrial bodies with celestial bodies, which are heavenly.
Ponder that..
Sandbar
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The bible is NOT a holy book. It is NOT the word of the god that created you, me, lizard people or anybody else. God does NOT have a favored religion or a favored people or a favored book. You have been made to believe this because it's the only thing you have ever been taught. Our parents put this on us from Day 1 for no other reason than they were taught the same thing and so was every generation before them. The bible that you believe is the true word is a mash up of older text that came long before the bible was written. Stories that come from the Sumerian text, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Atra-Hasis, the Enuma Elis, the Nag Hammadi. You folks also totally dismiss the Hindu text that came thousands of years before the bible as well. Do you know how many ancient text are in the Vatican vaults that few people even know about that the church has hidden? Not to mention all the text the evil bastards destroyed. It should give you pause that you have dozens of bibles that all contain different information and different text and then you try to tell me just to pay attention to the king james version. The church took reincarnation out of canon when the early christians believed in it. Why? Because reincarnation means no hell and no hell means no judgement and no judgement means no control by fear which is exactly what the bible as sold to you is intended to do, to control you with fear. Jesus came here to show you the way back home not to save you from your wicked ways. He was not a messiah, never claimed to be a messiah and there was no resurrection. He simply ascended to heaven on his last incarnation on earth. The christ within is exactly that. It's within you and always has been. You have incarnated on this planet multiple times and you will again and again until you find the way back Jesus laid down before you. We are eternal souls. Light beings of energy occupying a biological meat suit. Energy can not be created or destroyed only transformed and the thousands of people who have had near death experiences back this up. There are thousands of cases of people, mainly children who can remember past lives. They can remember things of those past lives they have absolutely no way of knowing and this has been scientifically proven.
The gnostics had it correct all along which is the exact reason the church feared them and tried to wipe them out. Spirituality is making an enormous comeback at the expense of the church because that's how our ancient ancestors connected to source which is NOT the old bearded man in the sky .........
So I curious, why do we actually need laws in the physical if there arenโt any in the spiritual?
I wonder who is the unfortunate reincarnation of Hitler, Stalin or Michael Jackson?
Sandbar
Member
You have universal laws and man-made laws. Which are you referring to? If you want to read a fascinating story of reincarnation look up Dorothy Eady (Omm Sety). There are many others that you can freely look up but this is one of the more researched cases
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
This post perfectly illustrates my previous post. Nothing but a TON of assumptions in here (with a nugget or two of rational truth) that really miss the mark completely on who God and Jesus are, and what following them is about. I could spend an hour going through it but there would be no point. You are free to believe whatever you want.
Sandbar
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There is no point in you going through it because you are doing the exact same thing which is assuming. You are speculating on what someone else said, probably your mom or grandma who told you what you believe and why like mine did before I decided to take a step back and seek the truth for myself. Have you ever looked at what the christian gnostics believed? Buddhist? Taoist? Jews?, Muslims? I am curious as to why you think you are right and they are wrong?
Man made laws. Are we wrong for having man made laws and if so, where and if not, why?
Below is what I believe. And I won't talk down to you like you do us when you say we only believe this because "probably your mom or grandma who told you what you believe and why". I respect you very much and than you for what you have done and are doing for our country. Usually I agree with you lock stop, but not on this.
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
Sandbar
Member
Do you think your way is the only way?
Sandbar
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No but our creator has nothing to do with man made anything. Our creator isn't a man. Our creator doesn't sit in the clouds laughing as we suffer. Our creator isn't vengeful. We have free will which means we are on our own to make mistakes. We judge ourselves in the afterlife. If there is karma we work that off in future life's as lessons learned. Hinduism believes in reincarnation. They are the oldest of the religions. Are they wrong? If so why? Let's have a discussion on that is all I ask
We judge ourselves based on what exactly? What are mistakes? How do we avoid them and classify them? If there is no true law, then there is no true right and no true wrong. Hitler wasnโt wrong, nor Stalin.
This conversation is really interesting to me because it is in the same general mindset that militant atheists have.
BTW, Hinduism also believes in a caste of people that if their shadow touches you that you become unclean. Is that right, wrong? Who knows.
There really isnโt a discussion to be had here unless we can find a rock solid place for discussion to take place. By your own admission, what I believe is not right or wrong because no distinct, hard truth exists to judge me on.
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Iceagewhereartthou
Member
More assumptions. My parents are agnostic so no go on that one. My grandparents were Christians but that is not why I am. As a teen I would probably have said a lot of the things you say, especially about other religions. But as I got older and researched for myself I found that none of the major world religions make sense with the world, human nature, morality, or, in some cases, common sense. I have researched much of what you talk about (not all but a lot) and come to my own understanding. I feel pretty confident that most of the Christians on this forum have done the same; we're not just some mindless guys repeating what others have told us because we are filled with fear and want an insurance policy. That has NOTHING to do with faith.
"Buddhist? Taoist? Jews?, Muslims? I am curious as to why you think you are right and they are wrong?"
Another topic that we could write a book on. For starters' I don't think I am right. I did not come up with Christianity. There are some things I wish were different but that is not for me to decide. If Christianity is right it has nothing to do with me. But here's the thing; these different religions have different world views, different beliefs about who God is, and different views about reality. Therefore, only one of them can be correct. Now, maybe none of them are, but only one can be.
Sandbar
Member
Spiritual people believe our souls come into our bodies with a life plan based on your past life's karma we carry over to the spirit world. You judge yourself at your passing with a life review based on what you had hoped to learn in that life. Your review consist of not only your perspective but you also see things from the perspective of those you did good deeds for or even those you wronged. Perhaps in your previous life you hated black people so to work off that karma you came back as a black person. The goal of every soul is to love unconditionally, to be christ like. That may take 1,000 lives in this dimension but there is no time in the spirit world. I have watched hundreds of near death experiencers stories and the large majority of them back up what I am saying. The abrahamic religions are based on fear, judgement and punishment. That doesn't sound at all like unconditional love to me. I have Native American blood in my veins. I didn't dump religion I simply saw through the veil as my spiritual ancestors did.
Sandbar
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Why can only one of them be right? Why wasn't it Hinduism then because it predates the Bible by thousands of years. From my perspective there is no right or wrong when it comes to the path you choose, only devout religious people believe they have to be right like you stated above. To me it comes down to whether you believe in reincarnation as I do. Like I mentioned before the Gnostic Christians did believe in it and were more spiritual. They also had differing beliefs about Jesus. Of course as we know, the Catholic Church did what the holy book commanded and slaughtered millions of them calling it hersey. To this day the Catholic Church hides the truth of who we are, why we are here and where we go. Will they ever reveal the truth when they can control the masses with fear of going to hell? I doubt it
Sandbar
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In mysticism the Trinity is father, mother, child. The divine feminine breaths life into the soul and is the mother of all creation. Mother nature and the universe are one
โI Believe in Mysticism, with an Interior Goal, and You are your Own Temple and your Own Priest.
I don't believe anymore in religions, because you see today there are religious wars, prejudice, false morals, and the woman is despised.
Religion is too old now; it's from another century, it's not for today.โ
~~Alejandro Jodorowsky~~
โI Believe in Mysticism, with an Interior Goal, and You are your Own Temple and your Own Priest.
I don't believe anymore in religions, because you see today there are religious wars, prejudice, false morals, and the woman is despised.
Religion is too old now; it's from another century, it's not for today.โ
~~Alejandro Jodorowsky~~
accu35
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Trinity are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thatโs what my bible teaches me .
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Where is the mother? Nowhere to be found
But, what makes hating black people wrong and who said we must love unconditionally? Who states what is a good deed? Is shunning the Untouchables a good deed? What about jailing a trouble maker who breaks traditional values and upsets a nation? Does forcing people to do good things count as a good deed?
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But, Mother Nature is by essence extremely violent and full of kill or be killed, prejudice and control by force.
Sandbar
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Universal laws are what we are bound to in the afterlife
Sandbar
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Yes she can be but she never ordered me to kill my enemies. I can show you in your holy book where it does. The great mother has never ordered anyone to sacrifice a child to prove loyalty but I can show you in your holy book where it does. In fact I can show you lots of awful things in your holy book. Mother nature has no book for you to compare. Mother nature is life, that holy book is manmade and open to interpretation which is why you have dozens of them. Would you jump off a cliff if that book told you too? Many of you adhere to it so tightly that I think you would
Yes, because I do believe the Bible is The Holy Word divinely inspired by God. And that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of the Triune Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who died, was buried, and rose from the dead as the true Sacrificial Lamb who atoned for all the sins of those who believe in Him.
I do not try to force that on you or tell you that you are less for not believing this. You have free will to believe what you like and none of us will know until we die.
Sandbar
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Yes you have free will to believe whatever. If you want to be judged you probably will and should be if that's your belief. I do not believe so I won't be. "Believing" is NOT KNOWING. That's the difference between religion and spirituality. You believe, I know. Simple as that. We all get what we want in the end right?
It depends on who is "right" in the end. If what other Christians and I believe is correct, I don't think you will get the "what we want in the end" that you are expecting. And you can say the same thing about us.
LickWx
Member
The Bible said the children of Ham and Canaan are cursed therefore us non whites are cursedโฆ never forget the curse of Ham
LickWx
Member
For a guy who doesnโt believe in religious fairy tales you sure do seem to buy into Jewish ones and their justification of Israel
Sandbar
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Again you believe, I know. Why would the creator choose one over the other? Nothing anywhere, in any book points to any religion being "The One". that is just utter nonsense
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Nope.......I have already gone over this with you but you don't get it. Not doing it again
There you go again belittling and talking down to us saying our beliefs are "utter nonsense". I won't do the same to you. We will have to agree to disagree. I respect your right to believe what you believe.
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I said what you were being taught is nonsense. I'm not belittling you or talking down to you or asking you to defend what you believe but I apologize if I hurt your feelings, it wasn't intentional
Iceagewhereartthou
Member
Once again, this shows you have ZERO understanding of God, Jesus, Christianity, or the Bible. None. Most of these have been well discussed in the thread (I know, because I personally addressed some of them) so I will not go through them all again. We're all free to believe whatever we want. There is only one reality and truth so we can't all be correct and arrive at the same place.
Sandbar
Member
You didn't address anything. You just confirmed your own Christian bias and YES we can all be correct because there is no one way or one truth on the other side. That's something somebody told you and you "believe it". The real problem with religous people such as yourself is that you insist you are right and everybody else is wrong and THAT is what is nonsense. I could just as easily say you have ZERO understanding of God, Jesus, Christianity or the Bible. I'm not sure if you know this but not all scholars agree within your own religion. That tells me enough
Sandbar
Member
If anyone is interested, and I doubt you are there is a gentleman named Paul Wallis who does a great job of breaking down and making a compelling case for why the Bible is misinterpreted and inaccurate if you care to explore further. He is a well known biblical scholar
Which are made by whom and we somehow know these laws?
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Based on what? Many say that man is just an animal and acts out what our instincts tell us to do. Considering nature normally is about the conquer the weak by force, then it would be prudent to think that nature told you to do the same correct?
The last sentences are just goofy, because it doesnโt.
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Sandbar
Member
No the Navy told me to conquer the weak by force
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