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Tell me now why each of the 10 listed reasons is not valid.
Come on GaWx. Your an intelligent person. You can see through all this BS. The man is a bully, but most Americans like that because he is doing exactly what he said he would do... (Make America Great Again). Nobody can deny that. He may have put a little pressure on some foreign interests, but he is not guilty of any impeachable offence. The Dems have stretched this WAY out of proportion. This is purely partisan politics at its' best.... or should I say, at its' worst.
 
You don't need to be "socialist" to oppose Trump. I identify as more right-wing and I honestly believe our president is, and I'm saying this very nicely, very bad for this country. I can only hope for the Democrats to beat him this year so republicans can regroup and figure out that right-wing extremism WILL NOT get moderate votes. But unfortunately, while it is being debated that the Democrat party is broken, I actually think the Republican party is also not what it once was. It's either you follow Trump blindly, or you're a "hippie leftist anarchist LGBTQA+ socialist atheist who wants to take away our guns"

Also, raising the voting age to 35 is a bad move. This isn't a country just for 35+ year olds. If I'm old enough to pay taxes and join the military, I'm old enough to contribute to society and have a say over what happens in politics.
At 18 you're still not old enough to drink or buy tobacco. A 16 year old still has to pay taxes. What are you getting at? Raising the voting age may very well be a valid solution.
 
Come on GaWx. Your an intelligent person. You can see through all this BS. The man is a bully, but most Americans like that because he is doing exactly what he said he would do... (Make America Great Again). Nobody can deny that. He may have put a little pressure on some foreign interests, but he is not guilty of any impeachable offence. The Dems have stretched this WAY out of proportion. This is purely partisan politics at its' best.... or should I say, at its' worst.

1. Are you saying that being a bully is key to MAGA? I liked Reagan's approach to MAGA much more. He was tough/firm but classy and not a jackass. And funny too! My favorite POTUS of my lifetime by far.
2. Yes, of course, partisan politics (PP) is very much a factor. I hate PP. But referring to that is often used as a diversion tactic by many so they can avoid defending Trump against the accusations, themselves.
3. It isn't so much about putting pressure on a foreign country. It is about putting one's selfish interests ahead of the interests of the country he's the leader of (corruption). "This for that"/quid pro quo.
 
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1. Are you saying that being a bully is key to MAGA? I liked Reagan's approach to MAGA much more. He was tough/firm but classy and not a jackass. And funny too! My favorite POTUS of my lifetime by far.
2. Yes, of course, partisan politics (PP) is very much a factor. I hate PP. But referring to that is often used as a diversion tactic by many so they can avoid defending Trump against the accusations, themselves.
3. It isn't so much about putting pressure on a foreign country. It is about putting one's selfish interests ahead of the interests of the country (corruption). "This for that"/quid pro quo.
I'll agree with you on one thing, I miss Reagan
 
At 18 you're still not old enough to drink or buy tobacco. A 16 year old still has to pay taxes. What are you getting at? Raising the voting age may very well be a valid solution.
Or putting a cap on voting age can be argued. Why do old people get to decide the future?
 
You don't need to be "socialist" to oppose Trump. I identify as more right-wing and I honestly believe our president is, and I'm saying this very nicely, very bad for this country. I can only hope for the Democrats to beat him this year so republicans can regroup and figure out that right-wing extremism WILL NOT get moderate votes. But unfortunately, while it is being debated that the Democrat party is broken, I actually think the Republican party is also not what it once was. It's either you follow Trump blindly, or you're a "hippie leftist anarchist LGBTQA+ socialist atheist who wants to take away our guns"

Also, raising the voting age to 35 is a bad move. This isn't a country just for 35+ year olds. If I'm old enough to pay taxes and join the military, I'm old enough to contribute to society and have a say over what happens in politics.
Yet you are not old enough to say I want to buy cigarettes or alcohol
 
1. Are you saying that being a bully is key to MAGA? I liked Reagan's approach to MAGA much more. He was tough/firm but classy and not a jackass. And funny too! My favorite POTUS of my lifetime by far.
2. Yes, of course, partisan politics (PP) is very much a factor. I hate PP. But referring to that is often used as a diversion tactic by many so they can avoid defending Trump against the accusations, themselves.
3. It isn't so much about putting pressure on a foreign country. It is about putting one's selfish interests ahead of the interests of the country he's the leader of (corruption). "This for that"/quid pro quo.
I'll agree with you on one point. I was old enough to vote for Reagan..... and I proudly voted for him.
 
1. Are you saying that being a bully is key to MAGA? I liked Reagan's approach to MAGA much more. He was tough/firm but classy and not a jackass. And funny too! My favorite POTUS of my lifetime by far.
2. Yes, of course, partisan politics (PP) is very much a factor. I hate PP. But referring to that is often used as a diversion tactic by many so they can avoid defending Trump against the accusations, themselves.
3. It isn't so much about putting pressure on a foreign country. It is about putting one's selfish interests ahead of the interests of the country he's the leader of (corruption). "This for that"/quid pro quo.

Think about this. Is Schiff someone who has proven to be reliable, fair and thorough in this investigation? If the evidence he presented is so overwhelming, why are they asking the Senate to basically do what they should have done in the house? Also, if you believe his 10 points posted, how much of that is based on fact vs opinion/hearsay? Those are key areas to investigate if you want to determine if the 10 points presented by Schiff are based in fact or fiction or a mashup of both. Then you also have to determine how these types of claims would hold up in a court of law.
 
At 18 you're still not old enough to drink or buy tobacco. A 16 year old still has to pay taxes. What are you getting at? Raising the voting age may very well be a valid solution.
So you think 18 year olds should not be able to vote but I bet you have no problem sending them to war to defend you.
 
Think about this. Is Schiff someone who has proven to be reliable, fair and thorough in this investigation? If the evidence he presented is so overwhelming, why are they asking the Senate to basically do what they should have done in the house? Also, if you believe his 10 points posted, how much of that is based on fact vs opinion/hearsay? Those are key areas to investigate if you want to determine if the 10 points presented by Schiff are based in fact or fiction or a mashup of both. Then you also have to determine how these types of claims would hold up in a court of law.

I watched the full hour. Schiff very meticulously went through all 10 one by one and, most importantly, he also presented evidence from both the House hearings (videos and slides of transcripts) that largely came both from folks from the Trump Administration (so, not at all Never Trumpers) and even Trump, himself!

So, as far as I'm concerned, these 10 are based on clearly presented facts. Did you by chance see this? If not, if you have an hour, you should watch it.
 
That "older generation" has actually earned it. The younger generation? They got a ways to go
I just think it's convenient for people who had the right to vote at 18 want to change the age when it looks like the young people will vote the old out
 
I just think it's convenient for people who had the right to vote at 18 want to change the age when it looks like the young people will vote the old out
Just a quick note ...... the fastest growing age group in America, is folks over 100. People are living longer now.
 
I watched the full hour. Schiff very meticulously went through all 10 one by one and, most importantly, he also presented evidence from both the House hearings (videos and slides of transcripts) that largely came both from folks from the Trump Administration (so, not at all Never Trumpers) and even Trump, himself!

So, as far as I'm concerned, these 10 are based on clearly presented facts. Did you by chance see this? If not, if you have an hour, you should watch it.

You would at the very least think the other guy on the phone call would agree with you right? The fact that he doesnt makes all 10 of them nothing more than subjective nonsense. Seeing as how not even the moderate Republicans see what you see tells me further that its just not based in factual evidence
 
I watched the full hour. Schiff very meticulously went through all 10 one by one and, most importantly, he also presented evidence from both the House hearings (videos and slides of transcripts) that largely came both from folks from the Trump Administration (so, not at all Never Trumpers) and even Trump, himself!

So, as far as I'm concerned, these 10 are based on clearly presented facts. Did you by chance see this? If not, if you have an hour, you should watch it.
Schiff has been caught in so many lies, even if he tells the truth now, no body would take him seriously. He even made up a fake transcript of the call and tried to sell it to the American people. Wow, talk about having some big ones. Then there's lying about not knowing the whistle-blower??? That was a big one as well. Come on man, you can't tell me that you believe him now..... do you?
 
Voters should be atleast 21 years of age in my opinion. An 18 year old this day in time is just not as responsible as an 18 year old 30+ years ago. Educated enough yes, responsible enough nope
 
This whole mess really isn't all that complicated to unpack. Trump is just as much of a lying sack o suds as the rest of these clowns, with one major difference. He's not part of the political club, and he doesn't give a poop. He beat the system and won the election and that pissed everybody off. He doesn't care about playing the political game the "right" way, and he's paid for it with one investigation after another.

You can say what you want about his overt behavior: bullying, lying, spinning, morality issues, waffling, whatever. And you'd have a fair point. But if you think he's in there doing all these "treasonous and corrupt" things that nobody else has done or is doing, then you need to wake the poop up.

I was hoping he would actively expose the corruption of the system when he won. He hasn't done nearly as much work there as I hoped. But inadvertently, things have progressed here anyway. This whole kabuki theater of investigation after investigation and the impeachment process is the fruit of a corrupt system. If it wasn't, this kind of thing would happen continually. It doesn't, and it isn't because everyone else is squeaky clean. This needs to be understood.

But it doesn't matter in the end. The system is coming apart and slowly and steadily getting exposed. Trump is essentially the first major manifestation of this. When the political class figures it out, it will be too late. I'm hoping it won't be too long until most of the people wearing the red and blue glasses wake up to this reality.
 
No and if he gave it to Iran to get dirt on Romney he should have been impeached
I deleted that question it wasn't very relevant. The only thing that had me thinking about that was it was suppose to be for a regime that was less extreme than the current one. Before the new regime back in the '70s bought a lot of weapons made in the U.S. but it was over taken by the current regime. We did not deliver the weapons but they were paid for by the old regime. I Would not think we should have honored the deal especially to a much more hostile regime.
 
Voters should be atleast 21 years of age in my opinion. An 18 year old this day in time is just not as responsible as an 18 year old 30+ years ago. Educated enough yes, responsible enough nope
Fine just don't make them pay taxes,go to war or prison until 21
 
You would at the very least think the other guy on the phone call would agree with you right? The fact that he doesnt makes all 10 of them nothing more than subjective nonsense. Seeing as how not even the moderate Republicans see what you see tells me further that its just not based in factual evidence

The moderate Reps are under a lot of pressure to follow the leader (McConnell). We'll see if some moderate Reps later have enough guts to vote to have witnesses.
As I said, Schiff presented a lot of evidence to back up all 10 points.
 
Schiff has been caught in so many lies, even if he tells the truth now, no body would take him seriously. He even made up a fake transcript of the call and tried to sell it to the American people. Wow, talk about having some big ones. Then there's lying about not knowing the whistle-blower??? That was a big one as well. Come on man, you can't tell me that you believe him now..... do you?

I do because his presentation included mucho evidence from Trump admin folks (and Trump, himself) as mentioned. You ought to see it for yourself. He's obviously not making up these videos and transcripts.
 
Voters should be atleast 21 years of age in my opinion. An 18 year old this day in time is just not as responsible as an 18 year old 30+ years ago. Educated enough yes, responsible enough nope
I disagree. Yes there are some idiots in my generation, but to say us as a whole aren't responsible is just wrong. It'll be us who picks up after the mess left behind by the current people running this country.
 
Fine just don't make them pay taxes,go to war or prison until 21

How many people under 21 do you know of who pay income taxes that amounts to anything? Most dont. Now nobody makes you go to war because people like myself volunteer to go. Prison has nothing to do with age 21....
 
I disagree. Yes there are some idiots in my generation, but to say us as a whole aren't responsible is just wrong. It'll be us who picks up after the mess left behind by the current people running this country.
And we are left cleaning up the mess left from our previous administrations. It's a kick the can down the road mentality,not unlike our discussion in the weather threads. I am fairly sure the next administration after this one and the one after that one will still be kicking the can down the road...

Eventually the road will end and I am not sure we will ever find a way back...
 
I watched the full hour. Schiff very meticulously went through all 10 one by one and, most importantly, he also presented evidence from both the House hearings (videos and slides of transcripts) that largely came both from folks from the Trump Administration (so, not at all Never Trumpers) and even Trump, himself!

So, as far as I'm concerned, these 10 are based on clearly presented facts. Did you by chance see this? If not, if you have an hour, you should watch it.

These presented “facts” are selectively used and mixed with some truth and some false or misleading claims. See here and here for a few examples. I don’t have time to go into a detailed breakdown of things but you can find info out there showing areas he clearly twisted his “facts” or was misleading.
 
I do because his presentation included mucho evidence from Trump admin folks (and Trump, himself) as mentioned. You ought to see it for yourself. He's obviously not making up these videos and transcripts.
Its like you are trying to explain why a warm nose on the the NAM is right over the gfs blizzard right before reality hits
 
I disagree. Yes there are some idiots in my generation, but to say us as a whole aren't responsible is just wrong. It'll be us who picks up after the mess left behind by the current people running this country.

Nobody is saying you will never be responsible just that you might need a wee bit more seasoning in the responsibility department before voting
 
I do because his presentation included mucho evidence from Trump admin folks (and Trump, himself) as mentioned. You ought to see it for yourself. He's obviously not making up these videos and transcripts.

Its easy to selectively edit out the context of a conversation on video or in text to make it say or appear to say something it doesn’t or intentionally mislead. Context is king and both of the articles I cited clearly spell out how he did this repeatedly in his investigation with even Politico calling him out on misleading/twisting certain aspects to fit his narrative.
 
Stand by my statement whether you voted for Trump, Clinton or Mickey Mouse
What gives you the authority to make this statement? When you were that age people that were older probably felt the same way about you. Were they right? Young people didn't buy into the false cause of revenge for 9-11 by invading Iraq, you did.
 
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