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Ukraine

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HSVweather said:
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HSVweather said:
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I honestly thought the plan was for Poland to supply Ukraine with the Migs and then the U.S. would supply F-16s to Poland to "backfill". How did this get so backwards or has the Kyiv Independent have it wrong again?
 
pcbjr said:
... and how pray tell does the US "ship" the planes to their final destination without acting as a NATO country and starting an ICBM exchange?
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My guessing is that's why Poland is letting the US do it, rather than themselves. Let's see if Russia puts their money where their mouth is after faltering to a bunch of farmers and rebels in Ukraine.

"I'll give them to you, what you do with them is your business" ?‍♂️
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
My guessing is that's why Poland is letting the US do it, rather than themselves. Let's see if Russia puts their money where their mouth is after faltering to a bunch of farmers and rebels in Ukraine.

"I'll give them to you, what you do with them is your business" ?‍♂️
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Ouch ... if it plays out that way ...
 
metwannabe said:
I honestly thought the plan was for Poland to supply Ukraine with the Migs and then the U.S. would supply F-16s to Poland to "backfill". How did this get so backwards or has the Kyiv Independent have it wrong again?
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That part surprised me as well. I would have thought the optics of the US providing Ukraine the Migs would be less desirable than Poland. I’m sure there is a reason or some additional compensation in the works to backfill the air assets to Poland with maybe the F16s.
 
metwannabe said:
Ok I got it, so we take the heat instead..... no offense if we're willing to teeter like this, just bomb the crap outta of them now and be done with it
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As if 20-some MIG-29s are going to truly make a difference in this war, either. Quite the risk for us to bear here…
 
metwannabe said:
Ok I got it, so we take the heat instead..... no offense if we're willing to teeter like this, just bomb the crap outta of them now and be done with it
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If you are under the impression that there is a clean way of doing of any of this, you are dead wrong. Let Poland do it, Russia bombs them, then NATO is involved. No matter what, we were going to answer for it in some way or another.

But I do agree, if we were going to take it this far, might as well let the USS Truman handle it.
 
HSVweather said:
That part surprised me as well. I would have thought the optics of the US providing Ukraine the Migs would be less desirable than Poland. I’m sure there is a reason or some additional compensation in the works to backfill the air assets to Poland with maybe the F16s.
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Poland is a low hanging fruit for Russia to retaliate against, which would have initiated a NATO response. Plan A or Plan B, the US is involved.
 
Since everyone is convinced Putin won't use nukes, this seems like a great time to destroy the Russian army while its bogged down in the Ukrainian mud.
 
Poimen said:
Since everyone is convinced Putin won't use nukes, this seems like a great time to destroy the Russian army while its bogged down in the Ukrainian mud.
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I’m not convinced of this. But I’m not worried about it either. Life’s to short to fear this stuff


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Jessy89 said:
I’m not convinced of this. But I’m not worried about it either. Life’s to short to fear this stuff


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It does create quite the quagmire when Putin has zero fear or respect of the West's nuclear capabilities, while the West is tiptoeing around Russia's threats.

Obviously the West wants to play the long game and try to strangle Russia's war machine into a long, slow death without escalating the situation. I think this plane transfer is an admission of the difficulty of sitting on the sideline, waiting for your opponent to die while innocent lives and other nations are in the crosshairs.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
If you are under the impression that there is a clean way of doing of any of this, you are dead wrong. Let Poland do it, Russia bombs them, then NATO is involved. No matter what, we were going to answer for it in some way or another.

But I do agree, if we were going to take it this far, might as well let the USS Truman handle it.
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I know there is no easy answer for sure and completely agree with your last sentence.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
It does create quite the quagmire when Putin has zero fear or respect of the West's nuclear capabilities, while the West is tiptoeing around Russia's threats.

Obviously the West wants to play the long game and try to strangle Russia's war machine into a long, slow death without escalating the situation. I think this plane transfer is an admission of the difficulty of sitting on the sideline, waiting for your opponent to die while innocent lives and other nations are in the crosshairs.
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Yeah the problem is if and when will NATO countries do something. That to Putin he feels is basically a act of war? And he ends up doing something absolutely crazy. I’m not worried about it but at the same time wouldn’t put anything past Putin


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Jessy89 said:
Yeah the problem is if and when will NATO countries do something. That to Putin he feels is basically a act of war? And he ends up doing something absolutely crazy. I’m not worried about it but at the same time wouldn’t put anything past Putin


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Putin is going to do whatever he is allowed to do.

Also, you have to remember that the US is playing diplomatic games with China and the Taiwan situation, so the optics that the US is willing to trade US assets in support of national sovereignty, could be at play here.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
I would have thought the same 10 days ago, but with Ukraine's ability to form a resistance, it just might help make the difference.
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I mean it’ll kill some Russians and help a little, but a few fairly outdated aircraft aren’t going to turn the tide of the war. If our goal is to cause Russians to bleed a bit more, I suppose it helps, but I’m not sure it’s worth the risk.
 
Poimen said:
Since everyone is convinced Putin won't use nukes, this seems like a great time to destroy the Russian army while its bogged down in the Ukrainian mud.
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I’m still not convinced Putin won’t use tactical nukes if the Russian army gets stalemated and there’s an opportunity where they’ll make a real difference. What’s the West really going to do? We’ve already sanctioned the hell out of Russia and are arming Ukraine to the teeth. What’s left besides outright intervention?
 
superjames1992 said:
I’m still not convinced Putin won’t use tactical nukes if the Russian army gets stalemated and there’s an opportunity where they’ll make a real difference. What’s the West really going to do? We’ve already sanctioned the hell out of Russia and are arming Ukraine to the teeth. What’s left besides outright intervention?
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Another scenario would be a nuclear "accident". This would give putin the advantage of not being able to launch nukes.
 
superjames1992 said:
I mean it’ll kill some Russians and help a little, but a few fairly outdated aircraft aren’t going to turn the tide of the war. If our goal is to cause Russians to bleed a bit more, I suppose it helps, but I’m not sure it’s worth the risk.
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Doing nothing isn't worth the risk either. What message would that send to China?

There's obviously more at play here.
 
superjames1992 said:
As if 20-some MIG-29s are going to truly make a difference in this war, either. Quite the risk for us to bear here…
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When I heard it, my first thought is this is more about Poland replacing their aged Mig 29s with probably some really upgraded F16s with probably a good bit of the complementary armaments than Ukraine.

Probably why it was so public and was a subtle warning to Russia.
 
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