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Ukraine

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This is gonna sound cruel but we need to hope for the Russian economy to completely collapse. I feel like that will be the only thing that will end this war.

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SimeonNC said:
This is gonna sound cruel but we need to hope for the Russian economy to completely collapse. I feel like that will be the only thing that will end this war.

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And there has been some speculation that this might just happen within weeks even though the western world hasn't cut Russia's oil off.

It's surprisingly not in as bad shape as it was premarket last night, but last night the ruble was doing things that would have topped what happened during Russia's financial crisis in the late 90s...
 
YetAnotherRDUGuy said:
There’s gotta be a better way of influencing Russian public opinion than stealing from them. That might backfire quick, and make civilians appear to be the victims of outside aggression.

Those hackers need to find a better target in my opinion.
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Yeah. Russian civilians are falling victim to the choices made by their government. And the sanctions placed on their economy by the United States and others are going to bury blood lines for generations to come. Everyone loses. No one is innocent here unfortunately.
 
Rain Cold said:
I keep hearing that Putin doesn't want NATO on his border. But I can't really figure out why. It's not like a NATO country is just going to randomly invade. And if he's worried about a missile attack, can't missiles just be launched from virtually anywhere? Conquering one nation after another, as has been suggested to be his plan, will eventually put NATO on his border.
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Russia has wanted buffer states because of napoleon in 1812, then in the 1917-1922 period the germans occupided all of ukraine, followed by the poles, then civil war with some western forces trying to topple the communists before Russia won in 1922. Then Hitler invaded in 1941 with up to 20 million Russia dead. If a guarantee had been given that Ukraine was not going to be in NATO this out might not be happening. If we had been invaded from Canada in 1941 with the same % dead here, say 35 million, we might want some buffer territory in what is southern Canada now. Also, what would be our reaction be if in our poorly decided invasion of Iraq Russia, china, europe, all of the mid east states sent lethal aid to terrorist insurgents in Iraq to kill american soldiers. The media provides no context on anything, they just cheerlead for war. My only comment on Rubio is thank God he isnt now(or his deceased friend McCain) in charge of deciding to provoke a war with Russia.
 
lexxnchloe said:
Russia has wanted buffer states because of napoleon in 1812, then in the 1917-1922 period the germans occupided all of ukraine, followed by the poles, then civil war with some western forces trying to topple the communists before Russia won in 1922. Then Hitler invaded in 1941 with up to 20 million Russia dead. If a guarantee had been given that Ukraine was not going to be in NATO this out might not be happening. If we had been invaded from Canada in 1941 with the same % dead here, say 35 million, we might want some buffer territory in what is southern Canada now. Also, what would be our reaction be if in our poorly decided invasion of Iraq Russia, china, europe, all of the mid east states sent lethal aid to terrorist insurgents in Iraq to kill american soldiers. The media provides no context on anything, they just cheerlead for war. My only comment on Rubio is thank God he isnt now(or his deceased friend McCain) in charge of deciding to provoke a war with Russia.
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well, America does not have a history of continually threatening its neighbors with no regard for the lives of its own citizens, unlike Russia. big difference
 
lexxnchloe said:
Russia has wanted buffer states because of napoleon in 1812, then in the 1917-1922 period the germans occupided all of ukraine, followed by the poles, then civil war with some western forces trying to topple the communists before Russia won in 1922. Then Hitler invaded in 1941 with up to 20 million Russia dead. If a guarantee had been given that Ukraine was not going to be in NATO this out might not be happening. If we had been invaded from Canada in 1941 with the same % dead here, say 35 million, we might want some buffer territory in what is southern Canada now. Also, what would be our reaction be if in our poorly decided invasion of Iraq Russia, china, europe, all of the mid east states sent lethal aid to terrorist insurgents in Iraq to kill american soldiers. The media provides no context on anything, they just cheerlead for war. My only comment on Rubio is thank God he isnt now(or his deceased friend McCain) in charge of deciding to provoke a war with Russia.
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Going to disagree. Putin wants his landbridge to Crimea at the very least. So IMO, I don't think it was going to matter at all if Ukraine agreed to not join NATO.
 
Rain Cold said:
I keep hearing that Putin doesn't want NATO on his border. But I can't really figure out why. It's not like a NATO country is just going to randomly invade. And if he's worried about a missile attack, can't missiles just be launched from virtually anywhere? Conquering one nation after another, as has been suggested to be his plan, will eventually put NATO on his border.
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Watch video Mason Dixon posted. Youll see why hes after ukraine. Ng,OIL and logistics
 
cyclogent said:
well, America does not have a history of continually threatening its neighbors with no regard for the lives of its own citizens, unlike Russia. big difference
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And we also dont have a history of being invaded with millions dead. Russia does. Putin thinks he is protecting Russia. He is paying a price for a huge miscalculation but thats what he thinks. We thought we were defending ourselves with a stupid invasion of Iraq. We paid a huge price for that. I see no reason to involve ourselves in a war now to satisfy the media drumbeat as well as rich comfortable people in congress who wont be in the line of fire.
 
As a Vet of the last 2 wars and now the father of a son who is halfway through his training, I would prefer the US not jump in any more conflicts over greed. I think the marge majority of Vets feel this way.......With that being said if I were 20 years younger with no wife and kids I might be entertaining the thought of hopping over there and getting my fix. Like I mentioned earlier, this threat has been there for awhile now and Europe kicked the can down the road. The only thing we can do now is send weapons as fast as possible so the Ukrainians can fight them with decent kit instead of pick axes and shovels. If Russia wants to fight, let Ukraine send as many of them to hell as possible
 
lexxnchloe said:
And we also dont have a history of being invaded with millions dead. Russia does. Putin thinks he is protecting Russia. He is paying a price for a huge miscalculation but thats what he thinks. We thought we were defending ourselves with a stupid invasion of Iraq. We paid a huge price for that. I see no reason to involve ourselves in a war now to satisfy the media drumbeat as well as rich comfortable people in congress who wont be in the line of fire.
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Afghanistan was about revenge (just stayed 17 years too long). Iraq was about securing rich oil deposits before someone crazier than Hussein came in to take them. We did get to kill alot of A-Holes though. Ramadi 2006 was a hoot!
 
Long thread here:



Of most interest is this post to me:



So, Russia thought they'd be able to avoid the worst of the western sanctions that they might get and still got slapped with them this past weekend...just pure brilliance.

Does show that it's likely about to get ugly there. Don't like that at all and am glad that part of my evening at least for Monday is tied up.
 
Sandbar said:
Afghanistan was about revenge (just stayed 17 years too long). Iraq was about securing rich oil deposits before someone crazier than Hussein came in to take them. We did get to kill alot of A-Holes though. Ramadi 2006 was a hoot!
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Yea, Afghanistan was a failed nation building campaign. We should have just killed OBL and left.
 
lexxnchloe said:
And we also dont have a history of being invaded with millions dead. Russia does. Putin thinks he is protecting Russia. He is paying a price for a huge miscalculation but thats what he thinks. We thought we were defending ourselves with a stupid invasion of Iraq. We paid a huge price for that. I see no reason to involve ourselves in a war now to satisfy the media drumbeat as well as rich comfortable people in congress who wont be in the line of fire.
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Thank you for trying to be fair and balanced with this situation. It's too easy to demonize the attacker without trying to see why they think like they do. I agree, this is way more complex than a 20 second media clip, a few gruesome picture uploads on Twitter, and a short news article. If you can understand how your adversary thinks, and what they want, you can begin to understand the situation and what needs to happen to step back from the emotions and rhetoric. Let's all hope and pray there are cooler heads for the leaders of all parties involved so we can step back from whatever brink may be just ahead.
 
From the data i'm finding. I can't find Ukraine losses for some reason, not even fatalities. This is where the losses stand so far. Feel free to correct or add info in replies.

1646081900063.png
 
severestorm said:
From the data i'm finding. I can't find Ukraine losses for some reason, not even fatalities. This is where the losses stand so far. Feel free to correct or add info in replies.

View attachment 114588
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Last I saw was 198 Ukrainian deaths, which I 100% believe is wayyyy undercounted. It’s not in Ukraine’s best interest to give real counts, don’t want to damage morale when they are already outmatched on paper.
 
buckinbronco said:
Last I saw was 198 Ukrainian deaths, which I 100% believe is wayyyy undercounted. It’s not in Ukraine’s best interest to give real counts, don’t want to damage morale when they are already outmatched on paper.
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Gotta give the bravery the Ukrainian are displaying though. UK should be displaying the numbers though, for reality checks. The soldiers deserve to know.
 
Philstorm91 said:
Thank you for trying to be fair and balanced with this situation. It's too easy to demonize the attacker without trying to see why they think like they do. I agree, this is way more complex than a 20 second media clip, a few gruesome picture uploads on Twitter, and a short news article. If you can understand how your adversary thinks, and what they want, you can begin to understand the situation and what needs to happen to step back from the emotions and rhetoric. Let's all hope and pray there are cooler heads for the leaders of all parties involved so we can step back from whatever brink may be just ahead.
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Just my opinion here, but nobody and I mean nobody was threatening to invade the Russian mainland. Nobody. The idea that Putin thinks he is protecting Russia because of it's history of being raided, doesn't explain Crimea, it doesn't explain Georgia, it doesn't explain Ukraine.

Putin is a calculated, cold hearted dictator, who spent two decades working for the KGB. Putin came of age in the Soviet Union's golden years, took over during Russia's bleakest years, and in 1999 when he was first appointed as President, said: "Russia has been a great power for centuries, and remains so. It has always had and still has legitimate zones of interest ............ We should not drop our guard in this respect, neither should we allow our opinion to be ignored."

In his first 4yrs of power, he squashed the Chechen uprising, state media took over where free media existed, and he waged a war on oligarchs which culminated in the arrest of Russia's richest man, Mikhail Khodorkovsky. He took over the media, squashed resistance and arrested anyone with the power to question his authority, all signs of building an authoritarian regime. Vladimir Putin wants and always wanted the USSR back and that alone drives his ambition. He called the fall of the USSR "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century, of which he blames Gorbachev for being a weak leader. To Putin, that Soviet Union was when "Mother Russia" was at her peak. Sputnik, the hydrogen bomb, Yuri Gagarin, Russia was powerful, Russia was feared and that alone has been his motivating factor since day 1.

That is not say that this is an attempt to get the gang back together, but Putin has long had a history of keeping former USSR nations in line, under his authoritarian thumb.
 
"Some units from the most capable units of the Armed Forces of Belarus have begun moving to the state border of Ukraine in the Volyn direction. '' - General Staff of the Armed Force of #Ukraine.

We are now, by definition, in WWIII
 
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