Political Thread

[Tornadocane]

Well this article says Trump cant order businesses back open, at best Trump can try and end up in the SCOTUS where he probably loses. Look Trump is wrong here he does not call the shots on this, the president cant force states to do anything legally....the Constitution is pretty clear on these separation of powers regardless of how much it pisses Trump off....even with the SCOTUS being stacked in favor of the right most of those guys thankfully are strict Constitutionalist Originalist and apply the rules correctly and someone like Trump will lose in the SCOTUS a lot trying to bend the rules around separation of power....

Can the Federal Government Override State Government Rules on Social Distancing to Promote the Economy?

A wary president eyes the economic fallout from social-distancing measures that states have adopted in a bid to flatten the curve. If he wants to do more than just

www.lawfareblog.com

I am an attorney that is familiar with this area of law due to working in employment, and I am 100% sure that the executive government could sign an order allowing people to work despite the stay-at-home orders enacted by the states. The article you cited provides a limited analysis on one aspect of the commerce clause, and clearly lacks imagination. They cite New York v. US, which precisely describes the federal action that I said could not be taken against the state - forcing a state agency to do an act. I am talking about a federal order allowing businesses within these states to operate on their own volition in contrast to state law. I am not forcing the state to do anything. I am allowing private citizens to work if they want to do so. There are plenty of congressional statutes that would enable the President to enact the order, and the author of the article simply doesn't want to find or think about any plausible ones.

I saw the same one-sided legal analysis when the President was thinking about a national lockdown. I saw the media and the lefty attorneys on the internet saying it's definitely not constitutional. Really? Not even a legal battle. I guess they aren't any good at law. Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. This is a statute that gives the executive branch authority via the Legislative powers in the Commerce Clause.

 

[ghost1]

I assume you're talking about his power to open up the states for business, and I bet some moronic lefty lawyers on CNN and MSNBC told you he couldn't do it. Democrats are so gullible. Of course he could find away to lift the state's stay-at-home order. Every attorney learns about it in our first semester at school. It's called the commerce clause. What's that you say?

The commerce clause is the provision that gives legislative branch power over interstate commerce, and the Supreme Court has expanded that definition to mean any commercial activity that has an effect on interstate commerce (almost everything does). The President has the power to enforce the commerce clause for congress. If the President didn't have this ability, he wouldn't be able to use executive powers to create the healthcare agencies and programs that Congress granted in the ACA. The President can also allow businesses to open up in states with a stay-at-home orders, because those businesses use interstate supply chains and credit transactions that are processed by banks in other states. Most likely Delaware. https://www.cato.org/blog/wall-emergency-even-legal-under-existing-law-violates-separation-powers

The Doctrine of Pre-emption provided in the supremacy clause of the constitution means that federal laws and orders take priority over conflicting state law that would undermine federal law or action that seeks to govern interstate commerce. All that is required for the law or action to be constitutional is that there be a rational basis between the effect of the order and interstate commerce, and the court's will limit a power appropriately reserved to state's per the 10th Amendment to further the commerce clause action. For example, Philadelphia v New Jersey (1976), the Court struck down a New Jersey law that prohibited the importation of garbage into the state. Concluding that garbage was "commerce," the Court viewed the law--despite its environmental justification--as unconstitutional discrimination agains out-of-state commerce. The Court held that as long as reasonable, non-discriminatory alternatives exist that serve the states legitimate interests, they must be used instead of a discriminatory ban.

If the powers of interstate commerce fails to provide the executive branch with the power to lift the state's stay-at-home order, the President could just enact a state of emergency.

Nope... referring to this comment he made.. "The president of the United States, the authority is total. And that's the way it's got to be."
Not in the US... maybe in Peoples Republic of North Korea where Kim Jong-un (Trump's good buddy) is president, but not in the US although it is what he wishes it to be and his propaganda machine and conspiracy theorists have really begun working for him to push it this way.

 

[Downeastnc]

I am an attorney that is familiar with this area of law due to working in employment, and I am 100% sure that the executive government could sign an order allowing people to work despite the stay-at-home orders enacted by the states. The article you cited provides a limited analysis on one aspect of the commerce clause, and clearly lacks imagination. They cite New York v. US, which precisely describes the federal action that I said could not be taken against the state - forcing a state agency to do an act. I am talking about a federal order allowing businesses within these states to operate on their own volition in contrast to state law. I am not forcing the state to do anything. I am allowing private citizens to work if they want to do so. There are plenty of congressional statutes that would enable the President to enact the order, and the author of the article simply doesn't want to find or think about any plausible ones.

I saw the same one-sided legal analysis when the President was thinking about a national lockdown. I saw the media and the lefty attorneys on the internet saying it's definitely not constitutional. Really? Not even a legal battle. I guess they aren't any good at law. Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states. This is a statute that gives the executive branch authority via the Legislative powers in the Commerce Clause.

Trump cant legally force nationwide lockdowns......just like he cant override state governors SIP and shutdown rules.....again at best he can try to enact some of these clauses but they will be challenged and go to the SCOTUS.

The entire total authority claim Trump made is false, in the end he is very limited as to what he can do......I do rather enjoy watching all the state's rights people though suddenly clamoring/claiming the Feds/president have "total authority" lol....seriously doubt they would think that way if a dem was currently president.

Heck even the folks at the National Review are calling him out on it....

No, Trump Can’t Force States to Reopen | National Review

The Constitution reserves police powers for the states. The president will have to make do with persuasion.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Dewpoint Dan]

Trump cant legally force nationwide lockdowns......just like he cant override state governors SIP and shutdown rules.....again at best he can try to enact some of these clauses but they will be challenged and go to the SCOTUS.

The entire total authority claim Trump made is false, in the end he is very limited as to what he can do......I do rather enjoy watching all the state's rights people though suddenly clamoring/claiming the Feds/president have "total authority" lol....seriously doubt they would think that way if a dem was currently president.

Heck even the folks at the National Review are calling him out on it....

No, Trump Can’t Force States to Reopen | National Review

The Constitution reserves police powers for the states. The president will have to make do with persuasion.

www.nationalreview.com

So if Trump cant force states to reopen, i guess states could stay closed as long as they want, even if it's for a year or more ?

 

[Downeastnc]

So if Trump cant force states to reopen, i guess states could stay closed as long as they want, even if it's for a year or more ?

Well yeah, there is little in the way of real power Trump has here, and its like that on purpose, the Founders were a pretty smart bunch of folks....the state's have the final say in what is best for the state when it comes to this matter not the president....would you want a government that allowed one person the kind of power Trump is claiming to have here? "Total Authority".....is that what you guys want?

 

[Dewpoint Dan]

Well yeah, there is little in the way of real power Trump has here, and its like that on purpose, the Founders were a pretty smart bunch of folks....the state's have the final say in what is best for the state when it comes to this matter not the president....would you want a government that allowed one person the kind of power Trump is claiming to have here? "Total Authority".....is that what you guys want?

So if the state says it's in their best interest to shut down for 10 years theres nothing the president can do ?

 

[Tornadocane]

Trump cant legally force nationwide lockdowns......just like he cant override state governors SIP and shutdown rules.....again at best he can try to enact some of these clauses but they will be challenged and go to the SCOTUS.

The entire total authority claim Trump made is false, in the end he is very limited as to what he can do......I do rather enjoy watching all the state's rights people though suddenly clamoring/claiming the Feds/president have "total authority" lol....seriously doubt they would think that way if a dem was currently president.

Heck even the folks at the National Review are calling him out on it....

No, Trump Can’t Force States to Reopen | National Review

The Constitution reserves police powers for the states. The president will have to make do with persuasion.

www.nationalreview.com

I just cited you the law passed by congress giving him the power to do it, so saying that he can't enact a nationwide shutdown is just false information. His justification is within section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264). At the very least, the constitutionality of a federal shutdown is arguable.

Again, you're lying when you say I am clamoring/claiming the President has total authority. That just isn't true. I've already stated one limitation to the commerce clause that the courts would not approve - force state officials to do something they don't want to do. It doesn't matter who is in office. The legal analysis doesn't hinge on whether the President is a Democrat or Republican.

Why would I look at the National Review when I've already found the statute intended to provide legal authority for the executive branch to constitutionally justify a national lockdown? It's not an authoritative source on legal matters.

Do you have anything substantive to say about the issue or do you just want to continue projecting your personality on other people? D you think others are totally corrupt like yourself? I've seen you agree with Democrats that want to add more justices to the Supreme Court so they can take back that branch of government. Your party wants to get rid of the electoral college system, and advocates for the violate of the constitution by changing the electoral college system to a national popular vote in which a state gives their delegates tot he popular vote winner. Democrats have advocated for the constitution to be re-written to remove the Senatorial make-up and rights of smaller states, so you can roll over less populated state governments. You're in a party that wants to remove procedural and substantive due process for people accused of sex crimes or any other matter where it's politically beneficial. You want to get rid of guns despite the protections in the second amendment. Stop pretending like you're not in a party that is advocating for total authority over your political opponents, and don't pretend like you know or care about the constitution.

 

[Tornadocane]

Well yeah, there is little in the way of real power Trump has here, and its like that on purpose, the Founders were a pretty smart bunch of folks....the state's have the final say in what is best for the state when it comes to this matter not the president....would you want a government that allowed one person the kind of power Trump is claiming to have here? "Total Authority".....is that what you guys want?

Yeah a few things changed since 1776. The Civil War completely settled the issue on whether a state government can decide what's best for its state. The states thought slavery was best, and Lincoln said "no". Twenty-two years after the war, the Interstate Commerce Act was passed.

The whole concept of giving a President total authority was essentially validated when Lincoln invented the Presidential War Powers. I suppose you didn't want Lincoln to have the kind of power he was claiming in 1865? Yeah yeah yeah... Trump is no Lincoln. I saw you typing that in the future. Also, FDR basically had total authority after the Great Depression.

It's not a question of whether the President has total authority. It's a question of whether he decides to use that authority.

 

[Downeastnc]

I just cited you the law passed by congress giving him the power to do it, so saying that he can't enact a nationwide shutdown is just false information. His justification is within section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264). At the very least, the constitutionality of a federal shutdown is arguable.

Again, you're lying when you say I am clamoring/claiming the President has total authority. That just isn't true. I've already stated one limitation to the commerce clause that the courts would not approve - force state officials to do something they don't want to do. It doesn't matter who is in office. The legal analysis doesn't hinge on whether the President is a Democrat or Republican.

Why would I look at the National Review when I've already found the statute intended to provide legal authority for the executive branch to constitutionally justify a national lockdown? It's not an authoritative source on legal matters.

Do you have anything substantive to say about the issue or do you just want to continue projecting your personality on other people? D you think others are totally corrupt like yourself? I've seen you agree with Democrats that want to add more justices to the Supreme Court so they can take back that branch of government. Your party wants to get rid of the electoral college system, and advocates for the violate of the constitution by changing the electoral college system to a national popular vote in which a state gives their delegates tot he popular vote winner. Democrats have advocated for the constitution to be re-written to remove the Senatorial make-up and rights of smaller states, so you can roll over less populated state governments. You're in a party that wants to remove procedural and substantive due process for people accused of sex crimes or any other matter where it's politically beneficial. You want to get rid of guns despite the protections in the second amendment. Stop pretending like you're not in a party that is advocating for total authority over your political opponents, and don't pretend like you know or care about the constitution.

I love it....that entire last paragraph....I mean bravo sir.....you sure have me figured out . Fact is you do not know anything about me or my politics.....and not surprisingly your dead ass wrong with that entire last paragraph. Don't take my word for it though ask around I have known some of these guys for literally decades....and posted with many of them on several other boards, they will all tell you the same thing, I am not a democrat, instead I am someone who up until 2016 voted for every Republican presidential candidate since I first voted in 1992.

One of the big drawbacks to the current GOP party is that they are the farthest thing from the "big tent" party, its either your lock step in with Trump and the far right or your a damn liberal.....so it isn't surprising that you assume/accuse me of those things its a common theme among the hard core Trumpers, just lump anyone that is against Trump in with the liberals cause obviously if we don't like Trump then we must be a pinko commie loving socialistic Biden loving liberal.

 

[Tornadocane]

I love it....that entire last paragraph....I mean bravo sir.....you sure have me figured out . Fact is you do not know anything about me or my politics.....and not surprisingly your dead ass wrong with that entire last paragraph. Don't take my word for it though ask around I have known some of these guys for literally decades....and posted with many of them on several other boards, they will all tell you the same thing, I am not a democrat, instead I am someone who up until 2016 voted for every Republican presidential candidate since I first voted in 1992.

One of the big drawbacks to the current GOP party is that they are the farthest thing from the "big tent" party, its either your lock step in with Trump and the far right or your a damn liberal.....so it isn't surprising that you assume/accuse me of those things its a common theme among the hard core Trumpers, just lump anyone that is against Trump in with the liberals cause obviously if we don't like Trump then we must be a pinko commie loving socialistic Biden loving liberal.

Yeah I was making fun of you for doing the same thing. I'm happy that you can admit that you're a neocon. The next step is to apologize to the rest of us for all the mistakes you've made in the last three decades. I doubt we'll ever see the day when that happen. Enjoy that big empty tent with Jeb Bush and John Kasich. I'm sure everybody inside is very polite when they're lying to you about all things they plan to deliver when they finally take back the reigns. I can't wait for the next mid-east adventure.

 

[Downeastnc]

Yeah I was making fun of you for doing the same thing. I'm happy that you can admit that you're a neocon. The next step is to apologize to the rest of us for all the mistakes you've made in the last three decades. I doubt we'll ever see the day when that happen. Enjoy that big empty tent with Jeb Bush and John Kasich. I'm sure everybody inside is very polite when they're lying to you about all things they plan to deliver when they finally take back the reigns. I can't wait for the next mid-east adventure.

LOL, so what your saying is you voted Dem all those elections....or did you vote for the exact same guys I did.....guess that means you got to apologize too....your right about the empty tent the far right and Trump have run everyone away that is not part of that 30% core base....

The GOP is falling apart and it not people like me that are at fault....

 

[snowlover91]

Despite all the criticism Trump has received for not acting on the coronavirus sooner, Dr Fauci blew that out of the water yesterday. He said Trump did exactly what he and Birx recommended. We’ve heard the narrative for so long that Trump should have done xxx sooner and if he would have listened to Fauci the country would have been shut down sooner and saved more lives but Fauci indicates otherwise.

“The first and only time that Dr. Birx and I went in and formally made a recommendation to the president to actually have a ‘shut down’ in the sense of not really a shut down but to really have strong mitigation. We discussed it, obviously there would be concern by some that, in fact, there might have some negative consequences. Nonetheless, the president listened to the recommendation and went to the mitigation,” Fauci said.

Fauci added: “The next second time that I went with Dr. Birx into the president and said, ’15 days are not enough. We need to go 30 days.’ … the president went with the health recommendations and we extended it another 30 days.”

He also wasn’t forced to say this, he was asked by the media and responded this way.

 

[crecre9]

This president just incriminates himself and shows his inadequacy and the danger he presents to this country with every press conference. Yet people still come out and defend him. It's literally mind boggling.

 

[NCSNOW]

Snowlover 91

Once again a false narrated hack job by the left and MSM has blown up on them. Just like the failed coupe made up Russia Collusion and impeachment circus they tried to create out of thin air.

Yet as Govt has required hundreds of 1000's small business to shut down across the fruited plain. The Democrats want budge in sending aid to those business that employ 100's of thousand employees. Instead they opt to use it as an opportunity to fund Abortion,New Green Deal garbage, send millions to a museum etc. Yet MSM and the left are silent. They could care less if this crisis is settled and America gets back to functioning normal before November or 1000s of small businesses go under. Come November the electorate will hold them accountable and have finally been awakened to the MSM partenship and cover up being ran. You can sense the disapointment we have caged up this coronovirus and navigated an epic disaster to American lives and economy.

How about that cocktail? Just like the China and Europe travel ban all the left and MSM where critical of. Same thing was perpetrated when POTUS was publicly enthused about the potential life saving news it offered.

The French study of the cocktail of over a 1000 Hospitilized people infected with severe coronovirus, showed 91% fully recovered. Lost the lives of less than 4% and all of them where over 74 years old.
You would think this would be all over the news yesterday. But it doesnt promote the defeat Trump agenda.

 

[Steven_1974]

Snowlover 91

Once again a false narrated hack job by the left and MSM has blown up on them. Just like the failed coupe made up Russia Collusion and impeachment circus they tried to create out of thin air.

Yet as Govt has required hundreds of 1000's small business to shut down across the fruited plain. The Democrats want budge in sending aid to those business that employ 100's of thousand employees. Instead they opt to use it as an opportunity to fund Abortion,New Green Deal garbage, send millions to a museum etc. Yet MSM and the left are silent. They could care less if this crisis is settled and America gets back to functioning normal before November or 1000s of small businesses go under. Come November the electorate will hold them accountable and have finally been awakened to the MSM partenship and cover up being ran. You can sense the disapointment we have caged up this coronovirus and navigated an epic disaster to American lives and economy.

How about that cocktail? Just like the China and Europe travel ban all the left and MSM where critical of. Same thing was perpetrated when POTUS was publicly enthused about the potential life saving news it offered.

The French study of the cocktail of over a 1000 Hospitilized people infected with severe coronovirus, showed 91% fully recovered. Lost the lives of less than 4% and all of them where over 74 years old.
You would think this would be all over the news yesterday. But it doesnt promote the defeat Trump agenda.

Hilarious that you actually believe all that stuff you just wrote. Just sad some of you just willingly go along with everything all cause he has an (R) next to his name.

 

[Deleted member 1449]

We should all keep in mind that none of us know what was going on behind the scenes in Jan-Feb.
Could the federal response have been better? Yes. Any rational person can agree with that. Has the federal response been a failure? No. Again, any reasonable person can agree with that.

The problem for Trump is that he was busy running off at the mouth during those months, giving the impression that it was either nothing to worry about, or that it was being blown out of proportion by the media to make him look bad. If he would just shut his mouth and do his job, then he would be more credible when attacking the media.

 

[NCSNOW]

This president just incriminates himself and shows his inadequacy and the danger he presents to this country with every press conference. Yet people still come out and defend him. It's literally mind boggling.

The people defending Trump [Agenda/results] fear the MSM and Democrat Agenda far more than a POTUS with an ego centric personality. Ill speak for myself , but I value America first over Global Socialist movement that we have been steered into since the 90s. I also burn down in my soul for the millions upon millions of innocent babies being butchered. I cant ignore that. I vote for them and myself everytime I fill out a ballot. Maybe those 2 examples will clarify for you why the MAGA movement is so rabbid. Its not about a man. Its about saving our country and its values. GOD FAMILY COUNTRY. Trump campaigned off this platform and he delivered on them. It wasnt rocket science. The RNC establishment was hand picking politicians to campaign off these issues, but they didnt beleive in them or ever intend to implement. Trump knows how to get things done,accomplished. Not worry about being a politician. It has completely blown up the charade inside the beltway thats been going on for decades by K street,the MSM, Establishment Rhinos and Socialist Dems.

 

[NCSNOW]

Hilarious that you actually believe all that stuff you just wrote. Just sad some of you just willingly go along with everything all cause he has an (R) next to his name.

Im not a Republican. That party sailed on me a long time ago.

 

[Steven_1974]

The people defending Trump [Agenda/results] fear the MSM and Democrat Agenda far more than a POTUS with an ego centric personality. Ill speak for myself , but I value America first over Global Socialist movement that we have been steered into sincevthe 90s. I also burn down in my soul for the millions upon millions of innocent babies being butchered. I cant ignore that. I vote for them and myself everytime I fill out a ballot. Maybe thise 2 examples will clarify for you why the MAGA movement is so rabbid. Its not about a man. Its about saving our country and its values. GOD FAMILY COUNTRY. Trump campaigned off this platform and he delivered on them. It wasnt rocket science. The RNC establishment was hand picking politicians to campaign off these issues, but they didnt beleive in them or ever intend to implement. Trump knows how to get things done,accomplished. Not worry about being a politician. It has completely blown up the charade inside the beltway thats been going on for decades by K street,the MSM, Establishment Rhinos and Socialist Dems.

Wow, talk about some serious Kool-Aid drinking there. The whole MAGA thing is a cult. You say God first yet you elected the most ungodly man you could find.

 

[NCSNOW]

We should all keep in mind that none of us know what was going on behind the scenes in Jan-Feb.
Could the federal response have been better? Yes. Any rational person can agree with that. Has the federal response been a failure? No. Again, any reasonable person can agree with that.

The problem for Trump is that he was busy running off at the mouth during those months, giving the impression that it was either nothing to worry about, or that it was being blown out of proportion by the media to make him look bad. If he would just shut his mouth and do his job, then he would be more credible when attacking the media.

Trump has led the WH corono team and done an outstanding job. He nor anyone on this earth walks on water. But kudos to him standing up to the onslaught of MSM and left ,not sitting silent and taking it lyeing down. Everything the MSM does is to make him look bad.
Its not him they hate, its his results, agenda being pushed. Thats what a lot of folks down deep have trouble with. Im not foolish enough to buy into the its just his character excuse. Trust me , Im as polar opposite in more ways than 1 as far as values ,character than Trump the person. But I know he will deleiver on standing up for whats right for the future of our country as oppossed to the socialist and centrist hes run against in the previous primaries and current election.