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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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Interesting article. I'm sure it'll get the typical "it's from a right wing site" nonsense, but it's still a good read.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

For the record, I always wear a mask in public places.
 
Rain Cold said:
Interesting article. I'm sure it'll get the typical "it's from a right wing site" nonsense, but it's still a good read.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

For the record, I always wear a mask in public places.
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The problem with some of these articles is that they don't cite any studies to back up their claims. Some of them give no reason of WHY they believe masks don't work.

And the general population doesn't understand how masks are supposed to help curb the spread. They don't keep you from inhaling the virus, they are meant to keep people that have the virus from expelling droplets laden with the virus. Just like surgeons wear masks to keep from expelling germs from their nose and mouth into a patient's open wounds, as well as to protect the surgeon from splashes from the patient.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I believe masks do help to a degree, but only if coupled with good hygiene practices. You can wear a mask all you want but if you're not washing or sanitizing your hands, being mindful of touching your face, and not keeping your distance from others then it won't matter. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if all Americans would follow those 3 simple things we could likely drop the masks and still drastically lower our numbers.

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esking76 said:
The problem with some of these articles is that they don't cite any studies to back up their claims. Some of them give no reason of WHY they believe masks don't work.

And the general population doesn't understand how masks are supposed to help curb the spread. They don't keep you from inhaling the virus, they are meant to keep people that have the virus from expelling droplets laden with the virus. Just like surgeons wear masks to keep from expelling germs from their nose and mouth into a patient's open wounds, as well as to protect the surgeon from splashes from the patient.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I believe masks do help to a degree, but only if coupled with good hygiene practices. You can wear a mask all you want but if you're not washing or sanitizing your hands, being mindful of touching your face, and not keeping your distance from others then it won't matter. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if all Americans would follow those 3 simple things we could likely drop the masks and still drastically lower our numbers.

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Good post. Personally, I think masks help. To what extent is difficult to quantify. It's not a binary situation, like you said. Most of these debates/discussions really oversimplify the main premise to the point that the crucial details and context are lost. My opinion is masks help, in certain circumstances and in conjunction with other actions. I doubt most people are even coming close to doing everything they should be doing in order to maximize the effectiveness of masking. But does any of that mean it's not wise to wear one, if it's available? No.
 
Rain Cold said:
Interesting article. I'm sure it'll get the typical "it's from a right wing site" nonsense, but it's still a good read.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

For the record, I always wear a mask in public places.
Click to expand...

It’s not nonsense if it’s true. Zero Hedge is far right. They post articles under a pseudonym of Tyler Durden for god sakes. Yeah, so it would be really cool if a centrist website had an article like that, but alas it’s always on the far right, anonymous blogs.


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I just wish covid wasn’t so political, why can’t we just agree and move on, this was suppose to bring us together to beat this thing but all it has done is brought more disagreements that can’t be moved on or takes forever to, poop covid
 
Jon said:
It’s not nonsense if it’s true. Zero Hedge is far right. They post articles under a pseudonym of Tyler Durden for god sakes. Yeah, so it would be really cool if a centrist website had an article like that, but alas it’s always on the far right, anonymous blogs.


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Called it.

Authored by John Miltimore via The Foundation for Economic Education,

I don't know anything about John Miltimore or the Foundation for Economic Education, but I do know liberal out of hand dismal tactics very well.
 
Jon said:
It’s not nonsense if it’s true. Zero Hedge is far right. They post articles under a pseudonym of Tyler Durden for god sakes. Yeah, so it would be really cool if a centrist website had an article like that, but alas it’s always on the far right, anonymous blogs.


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It doesn't help that when you look at the numbers and both Denmark and the Netherlands are in the midst of a 30 day upward trajectory in cases while the US is actually trending down.
 
Rain Cold said:
Called it.

Authored by John Miltimore via The Foundation for Economic Education,

I don't know anything about John Miltimore or the Foundation for Economic Education, but I do know liberal out of hand dismal tactics very well.
Click to expand...

Ok. My point was find a non partisan website before linking one that has been banned from twitter for pushing conspiracy theories, yeah? It’s possible to have a discussion about mask effectiveness and that’s not why I said what I said. It looks like you may have effectively done that...I’ll look later.

A quick google and it looks like Denmark has changed it’s no mask policy, largely due to a rise in cases. Whoops.
 
Jon said:
Ok. My point was find a non partisan website before linking one that has been banned from twitter for pushing conspiracy theories, yeah? It’s possible to have a discussion about mask effectiveness and that’s not why I said what I said. It looks like you may have effectively done that...I’ll look later.

A quick google and it looks like Denmark has changed it’s no mask policy, largely due to a rise in cases. Whoops.
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As I have said, I think masks can be effective. But there are medical professionals who disagree. I don't think it's a bad thing to try and understand that point of view.
 
Rain Cold said:
As I have said, I think masks can be effective. But there are medical professionals who disagree. I don't think it's a bad thing to try and understand that point of view.
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I feel like you can post anything you want. it adds to the conversation and it's up to the reader to verify its content.
 
Bham 99 said:
I feel like you can post anything you want. it adds to the conversation and it's up to the reader to verify its content.
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I mean, there are lots of people with way more experience that I in this field that have differing views. It's hard to know always the right answer. I think that's where common sense comes into play. I tend to supplement that with an understanding of politics, power, and corruption and how that whole sphere operates. But to each his own. But to Jon's point, ZH is a right leaning site, no question about it. But they post lots of content by other sources, so it's not always the Tyler's penning the articles.
 
Rain Cold said:
As I have said, I think masks can be effective. But there are medical professionals who disagree. I don't think it's a bad thing to try and understand that point of view.
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That’s exactly all I’m saying. I’m not saying anything to the sort of banning any opposite thoughts or thoughts against mainstream beliefs, but usually these thoughts are in the form of screenshots of unsourced social media images or articles from known (or unknown), far-right conspiracy theory websites/blogs. It must just be a coincidence? It’s hard to know what to trust these days, as just because someone’s an MD doesn’t mean I trust them and neither should any of you. Some MDs can literally be cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

I just feel like we can make a better argument and open up an actual dialogue with a reputable source, that’s my take. Masks aren’t perfect but I don’t think they were ever meant to be.

The case study here, involving the fully symptomatic hairdressers not spreading it to over 100 clients in close contact is basically where I stand on masks. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6928e2-H.pdf
 
This is a mixture of politics and virus, so I’ll just put it here.

"If I'm victorious on November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax," ?
www.nbcnews.com

Trump signs executive actions on coronavirus economic relief

Democrats promised last week to file a legal challenge if the president acted through executive order to circumvent Congress, which has the constitutional authority to determine federal spending.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
So, I guess the debt that we're in is supposed to just continuously roll over until our children and grandchildren are supposed to pay for it? Because that debt is just not going to go in the wind even if we want to wish it into the wind.

That's not that I like taxes as I know I won't when I'm paying. But...
 
Jimmy Hypocracy said:
This is a mixture of politics and virus, so I’ll just put it here.

"If I'm victorious on November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax," ?
www.nbcnews.com

Trump signs executive actions on coronavirus economic relief

Democrats promised last week to file a legal challenge if the president acted through executive order to circumvent Congress, which has the constitutional authority to determine federal spending.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Dang. I wish I could get it.
 
I will be very surprised if my county doesn't go full virtual when school starts. They already delayed to early September and unless the trend suddenly changes over the next week or two, it's not a good trend.

My older cousin's two sons are going to do school in-person after all. I don't think the mom likes the idea, but at least one of their boys apparently wanted to go back.
 
So when is my next covid stimulus check coming? I havnt been keeping up
 
Broken024 said:
Are they making you make it back though? Alot of people are going to end up owing taxes and be expecting the normal refund.
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Most likely.

I wouldn’t forego payroll tax unless you can be certain you will save it incase you have to pay it back. If all Americans who qualified never paid it back it would take a lot of funding from Social Security and Medicare...which will be challenged in the courts. So with all that said I wouldn’t get too excited. I think a deal is struck in Congress and this executive order is removed or challenged in court.
 
Jon said:
Most likely.

I wouldn’t forego payroll tax unless you can be certain you will save it incase you have to pay it back. If all Americans who qualified never paid it back it would take a lot of funding from Social Security and Medicare...which will be challenged in the courts. So with all that said I wouldn’t get too excited. I think a deal is struck in Congress and this executive order is removed or challenged in court.
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The whole we need to pay taxes to fund programs issue is a red herring. It matters if you have a fiscally responsible government. But when you're printing up trillions and running trillion+ dollar deficits forevermore, then taxes no longer make sense.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
So, I guess the debt that we're in is supposed to just continuously roll over until our children and grandchildren are supposed to pay for it? Because that debt is just not going to go in the wind even if we want to wish it into the wind.

That's not that I like taxes as I know I won't when I'm paying. But...
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I understand your point GG and in a perfect world raising taxes could help pay down the debt. However, there are several things throughout history which show that it doesn't work that way. Typically tax increases causes new methods of avoiding paying taxes from the rich and just results in a loss of investment in business and creating jobs. Secondly, the supposed increase in revenue from raising taxes is largely negated by the slow down of investment PLUS the fact Democrats have never seen a program they didn't like and have no discipline to curtail spending. To be fair, both parties are complicit in this with the only difference being the Dems tend to do it "bigger and better" when it comes to spending.
So what it all boils down to is raising taxes will cause nothing but an INCREASING national debt, lowering of investment and the merry go round never ceases. You could take every penny of money and assets from the top 1% and it would run the federal government about 2 1/2 months. The money is in the middle to upper middle classes because this is where most Americans are, throw in the fact that the bottom 50% pay 1% of all taxes and you see where it breaks down. Without pain and the fortitude it requires of actually cutting spending, we get nowhere
 
Jon said:
Most likely.

I wouldn’t forego payroll tax unless you can be certain you will save it incase you have to pay it back. If all Americans who qualified never paid it back it would take a lot of funding from Social Security and Medicare...which will be challenged in the courts. So with all that said I wouldn’t get too excited. I think a deal is struck in Congress and this executive order is removed or challenged in court.
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So interest free loan that I have no doubt at least 50% of the population will not understand has to be paid back. What could possibly go wrong?
 
Rain Cold said:
The whole we need to pay taxes to fund programs issue is a red herring. It matters if you have a fiscally responsible government. But when you're printing up trillions and running trillion+ dollar deficits forevermore, then taxes no longer make sense.
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Yeah but that’s an entirely different conversation. Yes the government is terrible with money, I could see that yesterday. The point is it’s taking funding away...so if the argument is the government can just print more money and replace it then that’s all and good. But typically people who rely on government programs are the ones taking on the burden of defunding realities, not people who can handle it most.

The red herring is the president’s executive orders yesterday.
 
Jon said:
Yeah but that’s an entirely different conversation. Yes the government is terrible with money, I could see that yesterday. The point is it’s taking funding away...so if the argument is the government can just print more money and replace it then that’s all and good. But typically people who rely on government programs are the ones taking on the burden of defunding realities, not people who can handle it most.

The red herring is the president’s executive orders yesterday.
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No matter what happens with taxes, none of these programs are going to get defunded until the system finally collapses.

I don't blame Trump for taking EO action. Whether it's a stunt or whatever, at least he's doing something. I mean there are a lot of things to bash him about, but this one is kind of silly to harp on.
 
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