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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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SD said:
Nah sarcasm and freedom will
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My concern with the vaccines is the rapidity with which they were developed and made available. It takes years to develop vaccines, unless I'm completely mistaken here. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize for the apprehension. If not, then we're operating on a very truncated timetable. It's hard to imagine that that allows for the thoroughness of testing that would otherwise take place. I think that is a legitimate risk. You can either argue that you completely trust that no corners were cut and all the T's were crossed and I's dotted. Or you could argue that the alternative to a risky vaccine would be far worse.

My fear with the vaccines is that once they're out in the marketplace and widely used, we will see two things happen: Serious side effects, more widespread than people think now and mandates by governments and businesses to get them. Maybe none of those things will happen, but I believe them to be a fairly high risk.
 
Shaggy said:
It's also hard to compare the 2 just based on advancement of medical care. Imagine if we were still as linited in treatment as they were then.
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Plus world population of about 1.8 B in 1918 compared to close to 8 B today, would think this plays a role as well.
 
SD said:
Do you believe anything
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Let's be honest, there is so much bias in every aspect of life these days and everything (that's not an exaggeration) is political, it's difficult to know what to believe anymore. I just tend to be skeptical of anything the government has it's hands all up in
 
Rain Cold said:
My concern with the vaccines is the rapidity with which they were developed and made available. It takes years to develop vaccines, unless I'm completely mistaken here. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize for the apprehension. If not, then we're operating on a very truncated timetable. It's hard to imagine that that allows for the thoroughness of testing that would otherwise take place. I think that is a legitimate risk. You can either argue that you completely trust that no corners were cut and all the T's were crossed and I's dotted. Or you could argue that the alternative to a risky vaccine would be far worse.

My fear with the vaccines is that once they're out in the marketplace and widely used, we will see two things happen: Serious side effects, more widespread than people think now and mandates by governments and businesses to get them. Maybe none of those things will happen, but I believe them to be a fairly high risk.
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Great points throughout this post. Both things will probably happen to some degree.
 
Rain Cold said:
My concern with the vaccines is the rapidity with which they were developed and made available. It takes years to develop vaccines, unless I'm completely mistaken here. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize for the apprehension. If not, then we're operating on a very truncated timetable. It's hard to imagine that that allows for the thoroughness of testing that would otherwise take place. I think that is a legitimate risk. You can either argue that you completely trust that no corners were cut and all the T's were crossed and I's dotted. Or you could argue that the alternative to a risky vaccine would be far worse.

My fear with the vaccines is that once they're out in the marketplace and widely used, we will see two things happen: Serious side effects, more widespread than people think now and mandates by governments and businesses to get them. Maybe none of those things will happen, but I believe them to be a fairly high risk.
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There has been tens of thousands of people testing them already and there hasn't been any big issues at all. Most of the vaccines in production are using technology that has been in use for other vaccines so there is a well known safety profile for those. The mRNA version of the vaccines is a new process for a vaccine, but it has been used in some other drug technology in the past few years, so also not that big of a concern.
 
Rain Cold said:
My concern with the vaccines is the rapidity with which they were developed and made available. It takes years to develop vaccines, unless I'm completely mistaken here. If I am wrong about that, then I apologize for the apprehension. If not, then we're operating on a very truncated timetable. It's hard to imagine that that allows for the thoroughness of testing that would otherwise take place. I think that is a legitimate risk. You can either argue that you completely trust that no corners were cut and all the T's were crossed and I's dotted. Or you could argue that the alternative to a risky vaccine would be far worse.

My fear with the vaccines is that once they're out in the marketplace and widely used, we will see two things happen: Serious side effects, more widespread than people think now and mandates by governments and businesses to get them. Maybe none of those things will happen, but I believe them to be a fairly high risk.
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I don't disagree. The way this vaccine works versus say the flu shot makes me a little more uneasy about getting it. I mean it's not impossible that I believe in science too much in my thinking that it's 2020 and we should be advanced enough that a vaccine isn't going to leave me with long term issues.
I saw on the news the other day that the expectation is many businesses to require the vaccine for employees to come back to work, it sounds like my office will be requiring to come back as well. Now I have also seen that Biden might be implementing a work from home tax (not sure if this is true?), if that is the case along with the vaccine being required to go back to work then yeah I will put my tin foil hat on.

metwannabe said:
Let's be honest, there is so much bias in every aspect of life these days and everything (that's not an exaggeration) is political, it's difficult to know what to believe anymore. I just tend to be skeptical of anything the government has it's hands all up in
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Look again I don't disagree with the skepticism. It's just I see this same stuff on facebook and tweeter and everywhere else all the time but what I never see is the people who are questioning the governments decisions offering any type of valid counterpoint of what to do. Unless you count stop testing, have the news stop reporting, it's not that bad, don't fear it, just open up, as solutions
 
SD said:
I don't disagree. The way this vaccine works versus say the flu shot makes me a little more uneasy about getting it. I mean it's not impossible that I believe in science too much in my thinking that it's 2020 and we should be advanced enough that a vaccine isn't going to leave me with long term issues.
I saw on the news the other day that the expectation is many businesses to require the vaccine for employees to come back to work, it sounds like my office will be requiring to come back as well. Now I have also seen that Biden might be implementing a work from home tax (not sure if this is true?), if that is the case along with the vaccine being required to go back to work then yeah I will put my tin foil hat on.


Look again I don't disagree with the skepticism. It's just I see this same stuff on facebook and tweeter and everywhere else all the time but what I never see is the people who are questioning the governments decisions offering any type of valid counterpoint of what to do. Unless you count stop testing, have the news stop reporting, it's not that bad, don't fear it, just open up, as solutions
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Well FB and Twitter, I just can't lol.... Problem is, at least from my perspective, it's difficult to give a solid solution because 1) I don't have access to or know all the facts 2) I don't trust the "data" we're being given. Look I don't doubt there is a virus, I don't think it's a hoax, I don't doubt people suffer and die from it..... what I do not know and doubt is that the total number of deaths is solely COVID related. Almost 3 million people die a year in the US, so far 286k have died this year from COVID, we're told. I know you and other's will think this sounds morbid, but I can't help but wonder of those 286K how many would have died during this time frame from something else unrelated to COVID. We all hear all kinds of things, some definite, some rumors, some conspiracy and I'm no exception, I've got friends in the medical field that have said they were told to count any death of anyone that tested positive as a COVID death (whether COVID was the cause or not). Do I believe them? Maybe, I don't know.... our governor for instance keeps talking about the science and the data but all of that data has never been revealed to everyone.

Only solution I have is protect the most vulnerable, tightest restrictions on Rest homes/Nursing homes/Medical residential facilities (should've been in place from day 1), government wants to get involved in retail business let them force businesses to set certain hours for the older population then sanitize and allow the general public to come in (some stores did this for a while on their own), our most vulnerable should be first in line for the vaccine, open schools (it can be done with specific guidelines), people need to be working and school closures are a nightmare for the workforce, don't restrict the least vulnerable population the most, I don't know maybe restrict the travel of those with underlying conditions or the elderly. None of this I'm sure makes sense, although it makes every bit as much sense as a curfew. It makes as much sense as allowing hundreds and thousands to pile into retail stores while only 10 can gather at my house....it's complicated and it's obvious government implemented plans aren't the answer.
 
SD said:
I don't disagree. The way this vaccine works versus say the flu shot makes me a little more uneasy about getting it. I mean it's not impossible that I believe in science too much in my thinking that it's 2020 and we should be advanced enough that a vaccine isn't going to leave me with long term issues.
I saw on the news the other day that the expectation is many businesses to require the vaccine for employees to come back to work, it sounds like my office will be requiring to come back as well. Now I have also seen that Biden might be implementing a work from home tax (not sure if this is true?), if that is the case along with the vaccine being required to go back to work then yeah I will put my tin foil hat on.


Look again I don't disagree with the skepticism. It's just I see this same stuff on facebook and tweeter and everywhere else all the time but what I never see is the people who are questioning the governments decisions offering any type of valid counterpoint of what to do. Unless you count stop testing, have the news stop reporting, it's not that bad, don't fear it, just open up, as solutions
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I guess at the end of the day, I don't really truly believe that politicians or large corporations have my best interest in mind. We've seen far too many examples of the political class protecting themselves and their cronies, enacting policies that benefit corporations and the uber wealthy, as opposed to regular, average people like most of us. You can just look around at the stress that has been building in society over the last couple of decades as a testament to this. It can be said that I have a tin foil hat on or whatever, but when I look at the reality of the world around me, I am completely unconvinced that big pharma, big media, big energy, big government, etc. is really all that concerned about me. Money and power drive everything, and it's almost not hidden anymore. There are lies and coverups almost on a daily basis, and it's been that way for a long time.

So when it comes to my health, yes sir, I'm absolutely going to be skeptical about a process we've never seen undertaken in the history of mankind, enabling a vaccine, built on new technology, to defeat a novel (imo human-augmented) virus, getting to market in record time. I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I want to see how this behaves in the real world for a while before I take it.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who wants to rush out and be first in line. Have at it. But I think we're about to see personal freedoms trampled on in a very, very big way.
 
So what does this curfew really change? Stores close at 10pm? 90% of stores and restaurants already closed at 10Pm. Closed alcohol sales after 9pm? Wasn't it already closed at 10pm just prior to this?

This curfew is a purely political move by Cooper. This makes his voting base feel better because he's doing something, while not actually doing anything.

Spineless hack.
 
@metwannabe I hear that argument of protecting the most vulnerable alot. Exactly how do we do this? My wifes work is like entering a prison temp, symptoms check a 40 question quiz on where theyve been IE large gatherings and so on.

They have largely failed because of so much community infection. The best defense is a good offense in this case. Fewer cases in the general public means less people that can slip in and infect the vulnerable.
 
SD said:
I don't disagree. The way this vaccine works versus say the flu shot makes me a little more uneasy about getting it. I mean it's not impossible that I believe in science too much in my thinking that it's 2020 and we should be advanced enough that a vaccine isn't going to leave me with long term issues.
I saw on the news the other day that the expectation is many businesses to require the vaccine for employees to come back to work, it sounds like my office will be requiring to come back as well. Now I have also seen that Biden might be implementing a work from home tax (not sure if this is true?), if that is the case along with the vaccine being required to go back to work then yeah I will put my tin foil hat on.


Look again I don't disagree with the skepticism. It's just I see this same stuff on facebook and tweeter and everywhere else all the time but what I never see is the people who are questioning the governments decisions offering any type of valid counterpoint of what to do. Unless you count stop testing, have the news stop reporting, it's not that bad, don't fear it, just open up, as solutions
Click to expand...

I think the problem with this line of thought is that people are expecting someone else to protect them. The only people we can protect are ourselves.
 
Shaggy said:
@metwannabe I hear that argument of protecting the most vulnerable alot. Exactly how do we do this? My wifes work is like entering a prison temp, symptoms check a 40 question quiz on where theyve been IE large gatherings and so on.

They have largely failed because of so much community infection. The best defense is a good offense in this case. Fewer cases in the general public means less people that can slip in and infect the vulnerable.
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I don't know, maybe instead of spending millions on test so athletes can be tested daily, spend it instead on test for essential workers, performing rapid test on any employee entering those facilities?

On the flip side, I hear all the time it's because of community spread but none of the current restrictions or mandates seem to be working but this just starts a round about debate with no exit strategy. Lol
 
Shaggy said:
@metwannabe I hear that argument of protecting the most vulnerable alot. Exactly how do we do this? My wifes work is like entering a prison temp, symptoms check a 40 question quiz on where theyve been IE large gatherings and so on.

They have largely failed because of so much community infection. The best defense is a good offense in this case. Fewer cases in the general public means less people that can slip in and infect the vulnerable.
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I think we can all agree temp checks are about as useful as a GFS panel at Hour 240. More $ to testing staff daily. My sister works for a Long Term Care facility and they do the spit test daily.
 
metwannabe said:
I don't know, maybe instead of spending millions on test so athletes can be tested daily, spend it instead on test for essential workers, performing rapid test on any employee entering those facilities?

On the flip side, I hear all the time it's because of community spread but none of the current restrictions or mandates seem to be working but this just starts a round about debate with no exit strategy. Lol
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I see you beat me too it. Great minds an all
 
metwannabe said:
Well FB and Twitter, I just can't lol.... Problem is, at least from my perspective, it's difficult to give a solid solution because 1) I don't have access to or know all the facts 2) I don't trust the "data" we're being given. Look I don't doubt there is a virus, I don't think it's a hoax, I don't doubt people suffer and die from it..... what I do not know and doubt is that the total number of deaths is solely COVID related. Almost 3 million people die a year in the US, so far 286k have died this year from COVID, we're told. I know you and other's will think this sounds morbid, but I can't help but wonder of those 286K how many would have died during this time frame from something else unrelated to COVID. We all hear all kinds of things, some definite, some rumors, some conspiracy and I'm no exception, I've got friends in the medical field that have said they were told to count any death of anyone that tested positive as a COVID death (whether COVID was the cause or not). Do I believe them? Maybe, I don't know.... our governor for instance keeps talking about the science and the data but all of that data has never been revealed to everyone.

Only solution I have is protect the most vulnerable, tightest restrictions on Rest homes/Nursing homes/Medical residential facilities (should've been in place from day 1), government wants to get involved in retail business let them force businesses to set certain hours for the older population then sanitize and allow the general public to come in (some stores did this for a while on their own), our most vulnerable should be first in line for the vaccine, open schools (it can be done with specific guidelines), people need to be working and school closures are a nightmare for the workforce, don't restrict the least vulnerable population the most, I don't know maybe restrict the travel of those with underlying conditions or the elderly. None of this I'm sure makes sense, although it makes every bit as much sense as a curfew. It makes as much sense as allowing hundreds and thousands to pile into retail stores while only 10 can gather at my house....it's complicated and it's obvious government implemented plans aren't the answer.
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This makes more sense than what we have in place now.

As for the first paragraph I don't trust the data either but it's all we have so what can you do? See it's funny because I have friends in the medical field and they tell me the opposite and they are only to report covid deaths if they are 100% sure covid capitalized on a preexisting condition. I think we can both agree the whole thing is a bungled mess and we probably won't know the full truth until we are much older.
 
smast16 said:
I think the problem with this line of thought is that people are expecting someone else to protect them. The only people we can protect are ourselves.
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Can you elaborate on this a little more, I see it a lot and I get the premise but I don't quite understand.
 
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