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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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BlueRidgeFolklore said:
So we both agree that COVID wasn't the underlying cause of death, then? Thank you. We could've just shortened this up if you would have agreed with that from the start.
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For some odd reason, you're hellbent on claiming that underlying health conditions played the bigger role in his death and covid-19 was just a minor contributor, and we simply don't have the evidence to support that just as we don't know covid-19 was the primary contributor. The fact that covid-19 effectively packs years worth of risk of death into a matter of weeks, further calls your claims into question, and I'm just not buying it all w/ the information and data we've been given.
 
Webberweather53 said:
As for Ojo being at risk individual, again people like this live several years-several decades with these underlying health problems, and are suddenly dying in a matter of days-weeks when they contract covid-19.
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They die like this for different reasons EVERY DAY! How many college and HS athletes die every year without COVID? Again, ONE dies in competition and suddenly it needs to be polarized?

Webberweather53 said:
We're putting several years-decades worth of risk into a matter of days-weeks when this person comes down w/ covid-19, which is orders of magnitude different and makes covid-19 arguably the main contributor to their death.
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How can it be the main contributor to their death when without these comorbidities this person is not at high risk for complications WITH COVID? The overwhelming majority of patients without these risk factors survive compared to their counterparts.

Webberweather53 said:
As for diabetes, again consider how long this individual typically lives alongside diabetes without covid-19 (many live decades) vs with the disease.
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My grandmother died from Pnuemonia years ago. Despite the fact that she had pancreatic cancer and was on chemo, which severely depleted her immune response, the cause of death on her death certificate was Pnuemonia. Now, I understand the point you're trying to make. The fact is that the Pneumonia was ultimately that straw that broke the camels back, but it was the pre-existing conditions that led to a bout of pneumonia severe enough to kill her, that ultimately took her out. That's the point. Without these comorbidities, that person likely survives no matter how long they would have survived with the comorbidity alone.
 
Webberweather53 said:
For some odd reason, you're hellbent on claiming that underlying health conditions played the bigger role in his death and covid-19 was just a minor contributor
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Not minor, but yes we call them risk factors for a reason....... because without them we're not likely at risk for complications and/or death.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
They die like this for different reasons EVERY DAY! How many college and HS athletes die every year without COVID? Again, ONE dies in competition and suddenly it needs to be polarized?



How can it be the main contributor to their death when without these comorbidities this person is not at high risk for complications WITH COVID? The overwhelming majority of patients without these risk factors survive compared to their counterparts.



My grandmother died from Pnuemonia years ago. Despite the fact that she had pancreatic cancer and was on chemo, which severely depleted her immune response, the cause of death on her death certificate was Pnuemonia. Now, I understand the point you're trying to make. The fact is that the Pneumonia was ultimately that straw that broke the camels back, but it was the pre-existing conditions that led to a bout of pneumonia severe enough to kill her, that ultimately took her out. That's the point. Without these comorbidities, that person likely survives no matter how long they would have survived with the comorbidity alone.
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Most people don't contract diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and immediately die within a matter of weeks upon being diagnosed with it except in more isolated instances where it was detected in its very late stages.

It's undoubtedly probable covid-19 was the main contributor here and it's definitely a primary risk factor no doubt. You could do some back-of-the-envelope math and calculate the probability of death for those w/ diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc by analyzing how long said individuals typically live w/ the disease and by analyzing the fraction that die with this disease alone over a 2-3 week period vs those that contract and die from covid-19 in the same period. I think the results would surprise both you and me.

This really shouldn't be polarizing at all, it's just simply a fact that covid-19 substantially increases the risk of death for individuals who contract it vs normal "everyday" life and even more so for those with underlying health conditions or are obese/massive, as is the case w/ so many football players in the NCAA & NFL. Why would we then want to potentially endanger our athletes even further and put them at an even higher risk of death or severe complications vs what they already have to contend with on a "normal" basis by allowing them to play if they've already come down w/ & recovered from covid-19, that just doesn't make any sense to me.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Not minor, but yes we call them risk factors for a reason....... because without them we're not likely at risk for complications and/or death.
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Well, if you're saying covid-19 isn't a minor contributor now, then I'd like for you to elaborate on this earlier post where you said covid-19 played a role but it was "likely" that there were prior heart issues, implying that the latter was the main contributor & not covid. I'm just trying to understand where you stand here because you seem to be contradicting yourself or have completely changed your opinion.

"The virus may have played a role but it was likely that there heart issues prior, due to his size,"
 
Webberweather53 said:
Most people don't contract diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and immediately die within a matter of weeks upon being diagnosed with it except in more isolated instances where it was detected in its very late stages.
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Agreed but these comorbidities put you at risk for death with many infections. Pneumonia, flu, sepsis, MRSA, you name it. COVID isn't the cause when you can plug and play many acquired illnesses and still get the same results based on the risk factors, the only constant being those underlying health issues.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Agreed but these comorbidities put you at risk for death with many infections. Pneumonia, flu, sepsis, MRSA, you name it. COVID isn't the cause when you can plug and play many acquired illnesses and still get the same results based on the risk factors, the only constant being those underlying health issues.
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Well this is true, but we can get a sense of the overall magnitude of risk collectively imposed by covid-19 over a large sample population through analyzing the lifespan of those w/ this disease, and fraction of those that survive over some time "t" for persons that only have one of these viruses, diseases, and/or cancers. For specific individuals, combining them creates lots of non-linearities and complicating factors that are basically impossible to control for but if the fractions are different by orders of magnitude, then we I think we may be able to conclude one played a bigger role than the other. I don't have the data on hand to look at this, but I think that's the direction this needs to be taken to substantiate the claim that covid or underlying health complications were or were not potentially the main contributing factor to death for those that contract covid-19 and possess underlying long-term health issues.
 
Btw, there is another issue brewing due to massive shut downs/school closures and that is the number of reported child abuse cases have dropped dramatically. Unfortunately this isn't a good thing, it isn't due to less abuse (could be the contrary) but less reports because these things are often noticed/reported by teachers, coaches, day care providers, etc. Just something else to consider
 
Back to the original question I posed yesterday before everything went off the rails...

If schools follow a similar protocol to the one published by the Big 12 earlier this week (referenced below), why isn't playing collegiate athletics feasible?

"Big 12 schools have committed to enhanced COVID-19 testing that includes three tests per week in high-contact sports like football. Additionally, return to play protocols after positive occurrences will include an EKG, troponin blood test, echocardiogram, and a cardiac MRI. Non-conference football opponents must also adhere to testing protocols that conform to Big 12 standards during the week leading up to competition."

According to the CDC there have been 242 Americans between the age of 15-24 (age range which encompasses all college athletes) who have died between February 1st and August 8th with the cause of death attributed to COVID (note: there were 17,079 deaths in that same age group over the same period of time NOT attributed to COVID). For context, there are over 35 million Americans between the age of 15 and 24 years old. So, that's 1 COVID-attributed death for every 144,628 American aged 15-24.

Right now ACC, SEC, and Big 12 university presidents seem to think it is feasible and relatively safe to conduct athletic competitions, while other university presidents disagree. Both sides make compelling arguments to support their opinion. Seems to me to be very similar to the differing opinions on this board. ?

For the record, there's nothing wrong with having differing opinions on a topic. If we all had the same opinion, well, that'd be boring.

Let's see how this all plays out...
 
Uncwmark said:
Back to the original question I posed yesterday before everything went off the rails...

If schools follow a similar protocol to the one published by the Big 12 earlier this week (referenced below), why isn't playing collegiate athletics feasible?

"Big 12 schools have committed to enhanced COVID-19 testing that includes three tests per week in high-contact sports like football. Additionally, return to play protocols after positive occurrences will include an EKG, troponin blood test, echocardiogram, and a cardiac MRI. Non-conference football opponents must also adhere to testing protocols that conform to Big 12 standards during the week leading up to competition."

According to the CDC there have been 242 Americans between the age of 15-24 (age range which encompasses all college athletes) who have died between February 1st and August 8th with the cause of death attributed to COVID (note: there were 17,079 deaths in that same age group over the same period of time NOT attributed to COVID). For context, there are over 35 million Americans between the age of 15 and 24 years old. So, that's 1 COVID-attributed death for every 144,628 American aged 15-24.

Right now ACC, SEC, and Big 12 university presidents seem to think it is feasible and relatively safe to conduct athletic competitions, while other university presidents disagree. Both sides make compelling arguments to support their opinion. Seems to me to be very similar to the differing opinions on this board. ?

For the record, there's nothing wrong with having differing opinions on a topic. If we all had the same opinion, well, that'd be boring.

Let's see how this all plays out...
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Not to beat a deadhorse & restate the obvious but disagreements are certainly what makes the world go around and it's okay to have them. However, this situation is very special in that we need to make sure we get this one right because it actually could be a matter of life or death for some.
 
I was wondering if this was gonna show up and exactly why the positive percentage is bunk. I would guess a lot of these negative tests are from the 29,700 negative tests received back from the big UA student test. Right or wrong, gonna see a massive skew coming up.

 
BTW: I'm not sure that a mask mandate is working to curb the spread in my county. I would even say that we're up to about 80-90% compliance here with at least the places I've gone to (including ourselves) and it's been that way for at least a couple weeks, maybe even a month. There's even people that don't take it off outside. Maybe since we're not that social, I'm missing several other things that have been happening though.

Cases are still shooting up in this county. If you look at just them only, it's been really bad for the past month or two. Frankly, it really surprises me that Davis (the Augusta mayor) hasn't tried to do what Keisha tried (with saying we're going back to phase one), but the reason he hasn't might have to do with what's below.

The interesting is that, even though this is going on, considering this area is likely also a hub for sick people in the nearby rural areas, at least per my knowledge and what I've read, hospital cases haven't gotten to the point where it's spiraled out of control. It's busy but it's looked manageable and if I'm remembering the last numbers I saw correctly before this week, it's actually slowed down and mildly turned around.
 
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