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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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At this point herd immunity policies need to be taken very cautiously. It doesnt look promising and we need to treat the idea of herd immunity with great pause until more data is available.

www.yahoo.com

Coronavirus immunity can start to fade away within weeks, according to a new study which puts a 'nail in the coffin' in the idea of herd immunity

The study by King's College London, the first COVID-19 study of its kind, is the latest to cast doubt over the concept of so-called herd immunity.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Shaggy said:
At this point herd immunity policies need to be taken very cautiously. It doesnt look promising and we need to treat the idea of herd immunity with great pause until more data is available.

www.yahoo.com

Coronavirus immunity can start to fade away within weeks, according to a new study which puts a 'nail in the coffin' in the idea of herd immunity

The study by King's College London, the first COVID-19 study of its kind, is the latest to cast doubt over the concept of so-called herd immunity.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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So we're going to be living like this the rest of our lives? :(
 
Webberweather53 said:
Winning! :(

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Still 9th in the world per capita (7th when removing microstates Andorra and San Marino), but at our current trajectory I’m not sure how many more weeks/months that will hold. Latin America is coming for us, though, as death rates in Chile, Peru, Brazil, Mexico, etc. are very high at the moment and I wouldn’t be surprised if some or all surpass us in per capita death rate over the next few weeks/months.

Belgium is currently the runaway winner for the worst hit non-microstate country with 844 deaths per million (over double ours). The UK is the worst hit major country with 660 deaths per million and counting (the US is currently at 416, FWIW). The death rate in the US is exceeding every country in Europe at the moment, though, so we are unfortunately catching up.
 
Hey Everyone! I am so thankful for all the knowledge that is being put out on this thread. The COVID-19 virus is something else. I would like to remind everyone to be respectful of each other when posting. The Admins and Mods have tried to be kind in letting you guys go. We've only put temporary bans in place for a few and shut the thread down for a day or two........BUT if you can't be respectful of others when you are posting moving forward....you may very well find yourself permanently banned from this site. Consider this your first warning! Do not expect another one.
 
Webberweather53 said:
Winning! :(
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That is sorta misleading. You really have to use per capita or deaths/100k figures to get the whole picture. Obviously a country like France, with 67m residents is going to be lower than the US (328m). Not saying France's deaths/100k is higher, just using it as an example (by the way it is). Also, we don't, and probably will never know, the true death count for certain countries, like Russia and China. Also, China isn't even listed there. I'd bet money they have more deaths than us.

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
 
Following up on the above post, excluding the microcountries San Marino and Andorra, the US is behind Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, and France in deaths/100k.

I'm not saying what we are doing to stop the spread is right, just presenting facts.
 
CamWX said:
That is sorta misleading. You really have to use per capita or deaths/100k figures to get the whole picture. Obviously a country like France, with 67m residents is going to be lower than the US (328m). Not saying France's deaths/100k is higher, just using it as an example (by the way it is). Also, we don't, and probably will never know, the true death count for certain countries, like Russia and China. Also, China isn't even listed there. I'd bet money they have more deaths than us.

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
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It's hardly very misleading wrt the US. We're also inside the top 10 per capita too. Not being technically first in that department is nothing to get even modestly excited or hopeful about and does absolutely nothing to take away from the main point here: our handling of COVID-19 has been absolutely atrocious and it starts at the very top via the president of the US.
 
Webberweather53 said:
We're also inside the top 10 per capita too. Not being technically first in that department is nothing to get even modestly excited or hopeful about and does absolutely nothing to take away from the main point here: our handling of COVID-19 has been absolutely atrocious and it starts at the very top via the president of the US.
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Never said we weren't in the top 10 per capita. I haven't looked at those stats, but I really don't need to in order to guess correctly on that. The point of my post was to put the tweet you posted into better context. I'm not going to get started with you on the political side as I've seen where that ends up.
 
CamWX said:
Never said we weren't in the top 10 per capita. I haven't looked at those stats, but I really don't need to in order to guess correctly on that. The point of my post was to put the tweet you posted into better context. I'm not going to get started with you on the political side as I've seen where that ends up.
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This is a total nitpick on your end and it's pretty obvious that changing from deaths to death rates hardly places it into any better context whatsoever.
 
Webberweather53 said:
This is a total nitpick on your end and it's pretty obvious that changing from deaths to death rates hardly places it into any better context whatsoever.
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Man, I don't know what your problem is. If you don't like what I posted, then don't comment or give me a thumbs down.

Of course changing the data from total deaths to deaths/100k or per capita is going to more accurately capture what the situation is in any given country. Throwing total deaths out there is purely for shock value. How else can you compare the country with the 3rd largest population with the 86th (Belgium)? Belgium's deaths/100k is more than 2x ours.

I remember taking statistics as a Met student, I would imagine you did too.
 
CamWX said:
Man, I don't know what your problem is. If you don't like what I posted, then don't comment or give me a thumbs down.

Of course changing the data from total deaths to deaths/100k or per capita is going to more accurately capture what the situation is in any given country. Throwing total deaths out there is purely for shock value. How else can you compare the country with the 3rd largest population with the 86th (Belgium)? Belgium's deaths/100k is more than 2x ours.

I remember taking statistics as a Met student, I would imagine you did too.
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Again, the difference in shock value is futile at best, oh man the US is only in the top 10 for global death rates! That certainly changes everything!

You know what they else they teach you in statistics? This funny thing called sample size. It's easier to get large variability in death rates when your total sample population is comparatively small & thus susceptible to noise
 
Webberweather53 said:
You know what they else they teach you in statistics? This funny thing called sample size. It's easier to get large variability in death rates when your total sample population is comparatively small & thus susceptible to noise
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You could say the same thing for US county data, or even state data. Cherrypicking stats to back your case up doesn't make it stronger.

I'm not going to follow up any more of your holier-than-thou posts after this, but I'll leave this:

Am I anti-mask? No
Am I a COVID denier? No
Do I practice the guidelines presented by various health organizations? Yes
Is this a real huge problem that isn't going away anytime soon? Yes
Are all the stats being flung around this thread inherently flawed in some way? Yes
 
CamWX said:
You could say the same thing for US county data, or even state data. Cherrypicking stats to back your case up doesn't make it stronger.

I'm not going to follow up any more of your holier-than-thou posts after this, but I'll leave this:

Am I anti-mask? No
Am I a COVID denier? No
Do I practice the guidelines presented by various health organizations? Yes
Is this a real huge problem that isn't going away anytime soon? Yes
Are all the stats being flung around this thread inherently flawed in some way? Yes
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I'd hardly consider looking at covid deaths from entire countries (not just subsets across the entire globe, many of whom have populations well into the tens-hundreds of millions) a "cherry pick".

Complaining about the difference in deaths vs death rates here as it pertains to the US w/ covid-19 is like a 3-13 NFL team celebrating after they're not the worst team in the league that season, the point is they still really suck.

Do the differences in deaths vs death rates actually make any meaningful differences about the general conclusions we draw from them?

No, of course they don't!

So why go on & on about it being "very flawed" when it doesn't change how we qualitatively perceive them?
 
Hello,

This thread is now unlocked. Please note that going forward I have instructed staff to lock this thread with no warning or questions if it turns into a crap show. It will be locked for 72 hours next time and follow the same guidelines that were laid out for the political thread 24hr/72/144/288/permalock.
 
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
 
metwannabe said:
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
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Great post! Thank you sir!
 
metwannabe said:
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
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Perfect post.
 
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