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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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Jimmy Hypocracy said:
No but seriously. You think the numbers are wrong? Bad chart?
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Of course death is the worst case scenario with this disease and something we should take seriously. But focusing all the attention or lack there of for some people on deaths takes away from the other serious consequences. Many people I know who have/had it are still suffering many weeks or months later. They are finding more long term health consequences in those that recovered. So even if you don’t die, there still could be many serious issues.
A statistic that showed age associated with everything from month long sickness, to amputations, to long term hospitalizations but not just deaths would likely be higher. I don’t prefer to deal with any of those.
 
ontherocks said:
Of course death is the worst case scenario with this disease and something we should take seriously. But focusing all the attention or lack there of for some people on deaths takes away from the other serious consequences. Many people I know who have/had it are still suffering many weeks or months later. They are finding more long term health consequences in those that recovered. So even if you don’t die, there still could be many serious issues.
A statistic that showed age associated with everything from month long sickness, to amputations, to long term hospitalizations but not just deaths would likely be higher. I don’t prefer to deal with any of those.
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I was going to write this same thing. All anyone is focusing on is cases, deaths, and hospital capacity. All of those are important, but that's all that's getting routinely talked about. It's probably because that's all the media is talking about. We live in an era of bad to non-existent journalism. Nobody wants to ask good questions, and everyone has an agenda.

In this case, some good questions might be: For those that fall into the "recovered" category, what was the length of sickness, broken down by age group and health status? What is the state of their recovery? Are they symptom free, with no impacts expected going forward?
 
ontherocks said:
Of course death is the worst case scenario with this disease and something we should take seriously. But focusing all the attention or lack there of for some people on deaths takes away from the other serious consequences. Many people I know who have/had it are still suffering many weeks or months later. They are finding more long term health consequences in those that recovered. So even if you don’t die, there still could be many serious issues.
A statistic that showed age associated with everything from month long sickness, to amputations, to long term hospitalizations but not just deaths would likely be higher. I don’t prefer to deal with any of those.
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Exactly!

Listen up. Quit focusing on death as a marker for how much you should worry!!

If you were at high risk for stroke, would you say “it’s fine if it’s debilitating and I never live the same life again, as long as I didn’t die”??

Of course not.

I’ve said it before...”RECOVERY” means no longer in the hospital and not dead.

It can also mean:
1) while on life support (ECMO) you have a stroke or multiple TIAs, no more feeling in the left side of your body, you have to learn to walk again and use a cane because your foot drags when you walk.

Or....

2)You have a heart attack due to your high and uncontrollable fever. Your heart sustains muscle damage (it’s a myocardial infarction is, after all) and now you need blood pressure mediations and cardiac mediations to keep your heart beating at a normal rate, your heart muscle can heal but some of it may not.

Or....

3) your lungs fill up with fluid and kidneys start failing, you live but now you need high doses of prednisone and deal with those side effects. You have years worth of breathing treatments and may never fully get your lung performance or capacity back that was pre-Covid.

Guess what!!! You recovered! Congrats! You will now only be listed as a “case” and a measly hospitalization, and folks that think this disease isn’t serious will use the death counts defending their statements. How would that make you feel? A little annoyed right?? It’s nothing, learn to walk again, it’s a hoax anyway!

This is real. It’s serious. Quit trying to argue the contrary and take precautions now for the good of this country. We all want to get back to normal and enjoy life. Please quit being selfish, think of someone in one of these cases that have been devastated by this disease and have some empathy and compassion for others. Once this country learns how to do that we’ll make it through this but until then get used to unneeded and preventable death.
 
NCSNOW said:
We havent missed a day of work yet. Be in the same warehouse offices sharing same bathrooms, break area, commuting in from 4 counties. Nada
Whats science behind that?
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Asymptomatic cases and luck?

Just so I’m following....Your justification is 100% of people aren’t getting it and your very personal experience is that your workplace has no cases so it is fine and everything is great? So no need for science since your warehouse is fine? Trying to understand here. Have you seen Tyson? Other facility outbreaks? Maybe consider yourself lucky.
 
Jon said:
Asymptomatic cases and luck?

Just so I’m following....Your justification is 100% of people aren’t getting it and your very personal experience is that your workplace has no cases so it is fine and everything is great? So no need for science since your warehouse is fine? Trying to understand here. Have you seen Tyson? Other facility outbreaks? Maybe consider yourself lucky.
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I've used this analogy several times and the post you quoted is a prime example.

If a tornado hits one part of the county but not the rest do the unaffected get to say there was no tornado?!

Its shortsighted way of looking at this disease.
 
Jon said:
Asymptomatic cases and luck?

Just so I’m following....Your justification is 100% of people aren’t getting it and your very personal experience is that your workplace has no cases so it is fine and everything is great? So no need for science since your warehouse is fine? Trying to understand here. Have you seen Tyson? Other facility outbreaks? Maybe consider yourself lucky.
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Dr. Jon,
I saw you mentioning high fever could be damaging to the heart muscle. I usually treat a fever as a good thing since the body is trying to kill the infection. But I realize it needs to be treated with Tylenol or whatever above a certain level. At what level would you say fever needs to be treated?
 
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GaWx said:
Dr. Jon,
I saw you mentioning high fever could be damaging to the heart muscle. I usually treat a fever as a good thing since the body is trying to kill the infection. But I realize it needs to be treated with Tylenol or whatever above a certain level. At what level would you say fever needs to be treated?
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Fever is a good thing, I’m specifically just talking about in a critical setting, such as hospitalized with Covid. It peaks with a cardiac event, usually in settings like the ICU or life support.

Fevers are usually self-limiting outside of the hospital (meaning it can only get so high and works against itself) but not in cases such as chemotherapy treatment and an ICU setting. Usually fever means maybe a secondary infection, such as bilateral pneumonia with tachypnea and tachycardia, and that would cause the heart attack.

Fever by itself doesn’t cause heart attacks, just trying to get an easy example....when there’s a lot of stuff going on “in the background”, all you see is febrile patient with Covid and they are getting critical and you wonder why, and there’s cardiac markers the bloodwork...MI. Surprise!

I don’t worry about a fever outside the hospital unless it’s high, like 102.5+

As far as treating it, it’s a personal preference. If you’re running high just take Tylenol like you said. Your body will know when to tell you it’s a bad situation, because it will get to the point where Tylenol can no longer break a fever. That’s when you go to the hospital (ie. Taking Tylenol and still running 102 is a problem). 99% of the time in an outpatient setting, Tylenol for fever is fine! But it’s also ok to say “let me just ride it out and let my body do it’s thing” not in the setting of Covid but a normal flu for instance.
 
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The entire SE US seems to be going down the commode regarding the virus. Anyone disagree? Why is this happening? Combo of reasons?
Is there a good reason why folks in the SE shouldn’t wear masks inside, especially if they’re coughing and sneezing or can’t socially distance themselves?
 
snowlover91 said:
Did she drink, smoke or do drugs?
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None of that matters in this case. She was 20, even if she did her lungs wouldn’t have been compromised. The post says she was immunocompromised due to a prescription drug she was taking, and while this is an extreme case, it shows what Covid can do to a lung. It was due to a cytokine storm and being on ECMO long term; and due to her immunosuppressive therapy her body couldn’t fight Covid as much as a normal 20yo would.
 
Jon said:
None of that matters in this case. She was 20, even if she did her lungs wouldn’t have been compromised. The post says she was immunocompromised due to a prescription drug she was taking, and while this is an extreme case, it shows what Covid can do to a lung. It was due to a cytokine storm and being on ECMO long term; and due to her immunosuppressive therapy her body couldn’t fight Covid as much as a normal 20yo would.
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I see, thanks for the explanation! Do you know if the talk about permanent lung damage from Covid is true? I remember awhile back seeing CT scans showing damaged lungs from it.
 
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snowlover91 said:
I see, thanks for the explanation! Do you know if the talk about permanent lung damage from Covid is true? I remember awhile back seeing CT scans showing damaged lungs from it.
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There’s still a lot we don’t know about long term complications. I don’t think we’d see long term damage on lung performance unless you’re intubated while in the hospital or hooked up to ECMO and recover. Whenever a machine takes over breathing, it’s doing so to give your lungs a timeout so they can try to heal. When you’re at that point, you’ve sustained some lung damage and just like anything else, lung function will return as your body heals from the illness. But with that said, there are several reports of outpatients taking very long to recover (months) and having post-viral flare ups of shortness of breath during exercise, almost like an asthmatic patient.

There’s probably going to be a ton of post-viral infection research trials on Covid, with lung scans and performance tests over the course of recovery— but it’s understandable that the focus of trials is treatment of hospitalized patients and vaccines at this time.
 
GaWx said:
Dr. Jon,
I saw you mentioning high fever could be damaging to the heart muscle. I usually treat a fever as a good thing since the body is trying to kill the infection. But I realize it needs to be treated with Tylenol or whatever above a certain level. At what level would you say fever needs to be treated?
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A high fever in a clinical setting is indicative of sepsis.
 
tramadoc said:
A high fever in a clinical setting is indicative of sepsis.
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Thanks. I meant that a fever is a good thing in that it is the body trying to take control over the infection. I didn’t mean that it is indicative of anything good.
 
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