pcbjr
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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)
- Thread starter GaWx
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Yes, a lot of the northern South American capitals (ex: Quito, Bogota) are very high in elevation, so they often have average high/lows around 70/50 all year. And depending on whether it's rainy season or not, it can be quite dry, too. Mexico City is also similar. So they're not very warm at all.
I know you don't agree, but I do not believe this is a natural virus. I'm worried about eventual mutations and or long term repercussions of those that have been infected, whether they showed symptoms or not so far.
Downeastnc
Member
Interesting look into the battle over chloroquine, there is a reason Trump does not talk about it anymore.....the plan to push this drug out to the public was stopped and its being only used in hospitals under constant doctor supervision in extreme cases only and even then the real impact its having is hard to determine....
"The plan triggered frantic pushback within federal health agencies against the idea of giving pharmacies enough chloroquine for doctors to prescribe it off-label for Covid-19, and against running what would have amounted to a loosely controlled, nationwide trial of the drug using patients who were not under constant care.
In response to Vanity Fair's reporting, an HHS spokesperson said the agency ultimately decided against the plan. Trump has not mentioned chloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19 during his daily briefings for nearly a week. The White House didn't immediately respond to a request for comment."
MSN
www.msn.com
"The plan triggered frantic pushback within federal health agencies against the idea of giving pharmacies enough chloroquine for doctors to prescribe it off-label for Covid-19, and against running what would have amounted to a loosely controlled, nationwide trial of the drug using patients who were not under constant care.
In response to Vanity Fair's reporting, an HHS spokesperson said the agency ultimately decided against the plan. Trump has not mentioned chloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19 during his daily briefings for nearly a week. The White House didn't immediately respond to a request for comment."
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Shaggy
Member
The more articles I read about these I am growing more skeptical of these numbers of 2.7 million and the high rates in california.
Non peer reviewed and validated by themselves with no outside verification? Yeah count me as skeptical the numbers are as high as they are claiming.
www.npr.org
Non peer reviewed and validated by themselves with no outside verification? Yeah count me as skeptical the numbers are as high as they are claiming.
Antibody Tests For Coronavirus Can Miss The Mark
Antibody tests to detect past exposure to the coronavirus will soon be everywhere. But even the best ones can provide wrong answers surprisingly often — and give false assurance.
www.npr.org
Brent
Member
About time
I'm so ready
I'm so ready
Jon
Member
Yeah, at this point we haven’t been able to replicate the outcomes or justify the use without increasing significant risk to the patient. Always have to weigh if the risk outweighs the benefit, which is what pharmacists and doctors judge all day. In this case, the cardiovascular complications outweigh any moderate or slight benefit of it’s use. Hydroxychloroquine was always questioned given the initial small trial data. This makes sense that outpatient (Rx went to pharmacies) use won’t happen because if anyone is outside of the hospital, they have a “mild case” and risk outweighs benefit.
When you’re throwing the kitchen sink at patients in hospitals because they’re dying, they may get better on their own and we may learn eventually that it was the azithromycin that prevented secondary bacteria pneumonia that was preventing these patients from deterioration....and not Hydroxychloroquine. But that only proves that of course you should use prophylactic antibiotic treatment in these patients as a way to prevent secondary infections — that’s well known and used in many situations in hospitalized patients already. Nothing to see here...
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Downeastnc
Member
Cad Wedge NC
Member
It wasn't touted as a "miracle cure". I don't know where you got that from? It was only helpful in preventing the bad cases from becoming deaths. Not a cure....
Furloughing medical professionals...seeing more and more of this. Nobody is safe.
www.journalnow.com
Wake Forest Baptist rolls out furloughs for employees, temporary pay cuts for management
Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center’s top executive has informed employees about furloughs for leadership and administrative employees that could begin next week or in early May.
One of our local urgent care providers is now providing test to anyone who wants one. That is a good sign.
Downeastnc
Member
But it has not helped any at all though, according to studies done in the US there is little to no evidence that it helps at all, in fact a recent study done in the US show the opposite, it actually was associated with MORE death than the people not given those treatments....the second article has a lot of good information and shows why my point stands that HC was pushed by the Trump team and far right pundits as a "cure", Trump was desperate to be seen as providing a fix or a answer and in typical Trump fashion he hammered the FDA and other groups for not doing enough to ignore the guidelines and rules set in place to prevent using these type pf drugs in ways that could do harm because Trump went off half baked and unproven advice, now they have the data suggesting it isn't helping and could be hurting people and Trump and his team and pundits have all but stopped talking about it completely. Here is the latest from the FDA on it.....they caution against using it.
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Alert
FDA is concerned that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are being used inappropriately to treat non-hospitalized patients for coronavirus disease (COVID-19) or to prevent that disease.
Article highlighting the Trump push of this drug and how they have backed away from it since the release of the below study....
Fox News Goes Radio Silent on Trump’s Coronavirus Miracle Drug
After a study showed hydroxychloroquine boosted death rates in COVID-19 patients, the president’s favorite network is suddenly hush-hush on the drug—or attacking the research itself.
"And the president followed suit. “HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,” wrote Donald Trump on March 21, in just one example of the numerous times he promoted the unproven COVID-19 treatment. “Hopefully they will BOTH…be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST.” And yet, after weeks hawking the drug as a miracle cure, both the network and the president have quietly abandoned it amid new studies showing it has no positive effects on COVID-19 patients and, in fact, could result in more deaths."
Link to the actual study.....though this still is not the best study as it is retrospective and we still need to wait for the outcome of some ongoing double blind studies being done, this however does highlight the higher number of deaths associated with the use of the drug than seen in other studies.
Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19
BACKGROUND Despite limited and conflicting data on the use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the emergency use of this drug when clinical trials are unavailable or infeasible. Hydroxychloroquine, alone or in combination with...
www.medrxiv.org
METHODS: We performed a retrospective analysis of data from patients hospitalized with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in all United States Veterans Health Administration medical centers until April 11, 2020. Patients were categorized based on their exposure to hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) as treatments in addition to standard supportive management for Covid-19. The two primary outcomes were death and the need for mechanical ventilation. We determined the association between treatment and the primary outcomes using competing risk hazard regression adjusting for clinical characteristics via propensity scores
RESULTS: A total of 368 patients were evaluated (HC, n=97; HC+AZ, n=113; no HC, n=158). Rates of death in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively. Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively. Compared to the no HC group, the risk of death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.61; 95% CI, 1.10 to 6.17; P=0.03) but not in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.14; 95% CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P=0.72). The risk of ventilation was similar in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.43; 95% CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P=0.48) and in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 0.43; 95% CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P=0.09), compared to the no HC group. CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.
Yellow Snow
Member
Here is the latest from the FDA on it.....they caution against using it.
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Alert
FDA is concerned that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are being used inappropriately to treat non-hospitalized patients for coronavirus disease (COVID-19) or to prevent that disease.www.fda.gov
That's not entirely true - the FDA warns against using it outside of a supervised hospital setting (which only makes sense at this point).
Cad Wedge NC
Member
I stand corrected.... I had not realized that the drug had no benefit at all. I am not afraid to admit when I am mistaken. Thanks for the data @DowneastncBut it has not helped any at all though, according to studies done in the US there is little to no evidence that it helps at all, in fact a recent study done in the US show the opposite, it actually was associated with MORE death than the people not given those treatments....the second article has a lot of good information and shows why my point stands that HC was pushed by the Trump team and far right pundits as a "cure", Trump was desperate to be seen as providing a fix or a answer and in typical Trump fashion he hammered the FDA and other groups for not doing enough to ignore the guidelines and rules set in place to prevent using these type pf drugs in ways that could do harm because Trump went off half baked and unproven advice, now they have the data suggesting it isn't helping and could be hurting people and Trump and his team and pundits have all but stopped talking about it completely. Here is the latest from the FDA on it.....they caution against using it.
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Alert
FDA is concerned that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are being used inappropriately to treat non-hospitalized patients for coronavirus disease (COVID-19) or to prevent that disease.
Article highlighting the Trump push of this drug and how they have backed away from it since the release of the below study....
Fox News Goes Radio Silent on Trump’s Coronavirus Miracle Drug
After a study showed hydroxychloroquine boosted death rates in COVID-19 patients, the president’s favorite network is suddenly hush-hush on the drug—or attacking the research itself.www.vanityfair.com
"And the president followed suit. “HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,” wrote Donald Trump on March 21, in just one example of the numerous times he promoted the unproven COVID-19 treatment. “Hopefully they will BOTH…be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST.” And yet, after weeks hawking the drug as a miracle cure, both the network and the president have quietly abandoned it amid new studies showing it has no positive effects on COVID-19 patients and, in fact, could result in more deaths."
Link to the actual study.....though this still is not the best study as it is retrospective and we still need to wait for the outcome of some ongoing double blind studies being done, this however does highlight the higher number of deaths associated with the use of the drug than seen in other studies.
Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19
BACKGROUND Despite limited and conflicting data on the use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the emergency use of this drug when clinical trials are unavailable or infeasible. Hydroxychloroquine, alone or in combination with...
METHODS: We performed a retrospective analysis of data from patients hospitalized with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in all United States Veterans Health Administration medical centers until April 11, 2020. Patients were categorized based on their exposure to hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) as treatments in addition to standard supportive management for Covid-19. The two primary outcomes were death and the need for mechanical ventilation. We determined the association between treatment and the primary outcomes using competing risk hazard regression adjusting for clinical characteristics via propensity scores
RESULTS: A total of 368 patients were evaluated (HC, n=97; HC+AZ, n=113; no HC, n=158). Rates of death in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively. Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively. Compared to the no HC group, the risk of death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.61; 95% CI, 1.10 to 6.17; P=0.03) but not in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.14; 95% CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P=0.72). The risk of ventilation was similar in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.43; 95% CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P=0.48) and in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 0.43; 95% CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P=0.09), compared to the no HC group. CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.
Yellow Snow
Member
Great point made in a NYT article today about how New York has skewed the overall US coronavirus numbers.
www.nytimes.com
Opinion | America Shouldn’t Have to Play by New York Rules (Published 2020)
A national lockdown is bad medicine and worse politics.
Shaggy
Member
Disappointing data. We need something to work. If there is a viable treatment that we know works then we open everything back up immediately instead of these staggered restarts .
Downeastnc
Member
Well its to early to say that as well....the point is there is not enough hard science to show that it helps, and some that shows that it hurts .....there could absolutely be some instances where it does help, that's why they do the double blind studies.....my point about Trump was he and others pushed this without knowing based on things they read that they WANTED to be true.....if Trump had his way they would have been prescribing this for potentially millions of people with mild cases to take at home outside of the care and observations of doctors and based on some of the data we now know that could have led to a lot of complications.
In the Politics thread, I had also posted about this yesterday asking if this could possibly be legit. (In what I posted, it was referenced by a You-Tube site.) I got several responses (which I appreciate, thank you) with a mix of opinions and I’m still wondering. Dr. Erickson is criticizing Dr. Fauci, who is revered here by many including myself and even some Trump supporters. In the interest of being open-minded enough to consider all sides assuming legitimate and sufficient data, I’ll ask again: could this be legit?
Here was my post: go there if you want to see the responses to it
Political Thread
Ahhhh. An aficionado of Copenhagen like myself. I knew there were other reasons I like you. You might appreciate this.LOL Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I never left out on an op without a log of copenhagen and cigarettes. Copenhagen for me, the smokes for bartering in case my ride didnt...
southernwx.com
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