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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)
- Thread starter GaWx
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ghost1
Member
This curve shows a leveling off.. but it needs to show a downward trend for a couple of weeks before a relaxing of the measures that got us to the point where we leveled off
Yellow Snow
Member
That's why the phased Gated Criteria in the White House plan are to be implemented on a state-by-state basis. Obviously the curves for less populated states like Nebraska or Maine are a lot different than those of most other states.
One of the main elements of our federalist system is that the state governments bear the primary responsibility of providing for the public safety, health, and welfare of their citizens.
Shaggy
Member
That letter was full of exaggerations and half truths and old data.
Shaggy
Member
Factoring in how many countless asymptomatic cases reduces that 1-29 ratio by a lot. We may never know the true number of asymptomatic cases and there was ZERO way to know we would get so lucky. We are dodging a HUGE bullet because of those asymptomatic cases. Imagine if everyone got sick from this and a decent percentage of them needed care. We got LUCKY!
Yellow Snow
Member
If you take the ratio of Covid deaths (42,458) versus jobs lost, the ratio is even steeper: 52 lost jobs per death.
And think of the # of people a job loss affects...you have kids a single job loss can affect a family of 4 on average.
Yellow Snow
Member
Exactly - the economic ripple effect impacts tens of millions all over the country, even in states with relatively small rates of infection.
GeorgiaGirl
Member
It's a Chinese study so I would still take it with a grain, but this morning I saw a study that suggests that this virus might have already mutated into 30 different strains. If that's anywhere near the ballpark of true...big IF, I don't think there's much choice but to try to let this run it's course to an extent.
Of course I'm sure others are continuing on with saying that only confirms that we need to stay locked up for a very long time and ugh...it gets political which I don't like.
Of course I'm sure others are continuing on with saying that only confirms that we need to stay locked up for a very long time and ugh...it gets political which I don't like.
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NCSNOW
Member
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Agreed. Way, Way, way more Asymptomatic cases than we thought.The Asymptomatic cases factored in would most likely show the mortality rate at .01%. We did not know this and are just finding ,figuring this out. We did what we had to do and wisely by shutting down to save lives. I think everything has been handled and managed very well by most elected officials, wh corono team,American Citizens etc.
But its time to open the economy up. We cant shut down our economy for a virus with a sub1% mortality rate. I dont think anyone on here would dispute that. We did not know that till the past few days, because we have true data now to go off of, not speculation. Weve been shut down for 36 days now, its time to open up. Still need to follow hand washing, 6 foot rule, elderly,comprimised taking extreme precaution. Not worth going into a depression, not recession economically. I say this with heavy heart. Its tough cause every life is a precious gift. But a depression will cost more or as many lives as this virus.
Shaggy
Member
You were doing good until this claim that a depression would cost more or as many lives. You been keeping up with our deaths? We will likely/hopefully peak somewhere around 60k dead.
I agree we should look at reopening but i cant stress enough how calculated, fluid and flexible that plan needs to be or we see a 2nd even more damaging lockdown.
Calculated is key.
Heelyes
Member
I'm sure most of those jobs will come back but none of the lost lives will
Shaggy
Member
I am now convinced there are some here who couldnt care less about the lost lives.
If you're not even considering the socioeconomic fallout from this then you are not being realistic. We shouldn't be mocking people for considering that. Yes, the mortality rate for people over 60 is very scary but the mortality rate for people under 50 is that of the common flu. The socioeconomic fallout will be unprecedented...we have no clue how bad it will and how long it will last, but it's not going to be a quick turnaround. But, when covid19 hopefully gets contained in 18-24 months the wages/job won't come back with a snap of a finger, if at all. You have big businesses that have/will shut there doors, those jobs are not coming back and that isn't going to stop anytime soon. Imagine sitting there having just lost your job and trying to look for one in this environment....imagine sitting there not knowing how you are going to pay the mortgage/rent, buy food/clothes for your family. I am in no ways belittling covid19, it's very serious and shutting things down was the right call, but it will be a balance going forward.
Shaggy
Member
We are on the same page. We have to start thinking about the reopening process. I am fine with that.
There has been a small segment here that have made numerous post about opening the economy no matter what and that deaths are just going to have to be a part of it. That our elders just have to take their chances. Maybe their posts werent meant to be that way and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for a few weeks but after the 100th post like that I am convinced they dont care about lives lost.
Cad Wedge NC
Member
Not true Shaggy, they are trying to prevent more loss of life from hardships that will stem from a nation of unemployed people. I want my elderly parents to live and draw their SS checks without having to worry about a bankrupt government. Right now, the elderly people need us working. How, for the love of God, are we going to pay for what we have already spent? Are we going to make China pay for it?
Steven_1974
Member
AP: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
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A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
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A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Steven_1974
Member
Interesting info from NY ER doctor.
"Even patients without respiratory complaints had Covid pneumonia. The patient stabbed in the shoulder, whom we X-rayed because we worried he had a collapsed lung, actually had Covid pneumonia. In patients on whom we did CT scans because they were injured in falls, we coincidentally found Covid pneumonia. Elderly patients who had passed out for unknown reasons and a number of diabetic patients were found to have it.
And here is what really surprised us: These patients did not report any sensation of breathing problems, even though their chest X-rays showed diffuse pneumonia and their oxygen was below normal. How could this be?"
"click the link to read the details, but the short answer turns out to be that COVID-19 attacks the lungs in an unusual way: it causes the air sacs to collapse and oxygen levels to fall, but the lungs still expel carbon dioxide normally. Since it’s carbon dioxide buildup that causes you to feel short of breath, patients had never even noticed anything was wrong:"
"A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors….Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it….By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator."
"20 percent develop pneumonia and many end up on ventilators and eventually die. The problem is that they don’t feel anything for the first week, and by the time they do it’s too late. So how can we catch these cases earlier? With this: a pulse oximeter, and it measures the level of oxygenation in your blood. You probably get a quick oxygenation test every time you see a doctor. So the answer is: test your blood oxygenation every day. If it falls below normal levels, get to an ER and get tested for COVID-19. Your chances of survival are way higher if you can get to it early."
"Even patients without respiratory complaints had Covid pneumonia. The patient stabbed in the shoulder, whom we X-rayed because we worried he had a collapsed lung, actually had Covid pneumonia. In patients on whom we did CT scans because they were injured in falls, we coincidentally found Covid pneumonia. Elderly patients who had passed out for unknown reasons and a number of diabetic patients were found to have it.
And here is what really surprised us: These patients did not report any sensation of breathing problems, even though their chest X-rays showed diffuse pneumonia and their oxygen was below normal. How could this be?"
"click the link to read the details, but the short answer turns out to be that COVID-19 attacks the lungs in an unusual way: it causes the air sacs to collapse and oxygen levels to fall, but the lungs still expel carbon dioxide normally. Since it’s carbon dioxide buildup that causes you to feel short of breath, patients had never even noticed anything was wrong:"
"A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors….Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it….By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator."
"20 percent develop pneumonia and many end up on ventilators and eventually die. The problem is that they don’t feel anything for the first week, and by the time they do it’s too late. So how can we catch these cases earlier? With this: a pulse oximeter, and it measures the level of oxygenation in your blood. You probably get a quick oxygenation test every time you see a doctor. So the answer is: test your blood oxygenation every day. If it falls below normal levels, get to an ER and get tested for COVID-19. Your chances of survival are way higher if you can get to it early."
Shaggy
Member
Good place to start.
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