Tarheel17
Member
For the first time in my life, sent a note to my elected representatives. In isolation I doubt it makes an impact, but not much else one can do. Kept it as non-partisan as possible.
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Misc Cold Season Complaining
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nice time to graduate college with a Met degree, huh?
JHS
Member
This next round will probably include closing most NWS offices. We will probably have only around 20-30 offices left.
NWS is the big show, but it ain't the only show. Although I'm worried about the show I'm in too based on other local news reports today.
Just worried the rest of the shows will have a bevy of new applicants that are (deservedly) going to take me out of consideration. Just unfortunate timing for me personally, but more frustrated for those who have put time and effort into keeping people safe because they want to, not because of the money
I'm afraid most of the general public won't know the full impact of slashing the NWS until a major life-altering weather event happens in their area. It's one of those government services that most don't notice until something bad happens.
Brent
Member
That's my concern too... Tornado season is gonna be a problem for sure but we've already seen the old planes during the hurricanes have mechanical problems during landfalling US threats
Not gonna get any better that's for sure
have a morbid fascination/interest with how this will turn out
Unfortunately, it won't be viewed that way if it does happen. An under-sampled wave will cause an under-staffed WFO to blow a forecast and instead of seeing the impact of this
show, those who agree with the the current events will use it as justification for the cuts because NWS meteorologists now "suck" and they'll claim that as their proof. I mean has this winter not been evidence enough of how friggin bad NWP is outside of about D3?! One less RAOB in a data sparse region will certainly not help matters!I've lived this - anything goes when it comes to throwing the meteorologist under the political bus in the public sphere. I've had my own colleagues job threatened by outraged public calling for them to be fired (to his own supervisor) for a forecast we got right but had a Charlotte broadcast station lie and say we were over-warning and the ignorant public believed the lie. The best part was we were not even allowed to defend ourselves. Being a meteorologist has a lot of perks, but public adoration is rarely one of them. Days like today (and the aforementioned) make me question how much longer I want to be in the field.
Brent
Member
Unfortunately, it won't be viewed that way if it does happen. An under-sampled wave will cause an under-staffed WFO to blow a forecast and instead of seeing the impact of this
I've lived this - anything goes when it comes to throwing the meteorologist under the political bus in the public sphere. I've had my own colleagues job threatened by outraged public calling for them to be fired (to his own supervisor) for a forecast we got right but had a Charlotte broadcast station lie and say we were over-warning and the ignorant public believed the lie. The best part was we were not even allowed to defend ourselves. Being a meteorologist has a lot of perks, but public adoration is rarely one of them. Days like today (and the aforementioned) make me question how much longer I want to be in the field.
Right? So many people already think Mets don't deserve their job how they should get fired for being wrong half the time. These are actual quotes from people
Go read social media after a blown forecast. Last week people were like why even bother when we only got 2 inches of snow instead of 6. They wish their job was that easy...
Yea, I might have been trying to be hopeful it would be noticed so that this could be reversed long term. I want to believe that, but it's hard to argue against your experience.Unfortunately, it won't be viewed that way if it does happen. An under-sampled wave will cause an under-staffed WFO to blow a forecast and instead of seeing the impact of this
I've lived this - anything goes when it comes to throwing the meteorologist under the political bus in the public sphere. I've had my own colleagues job threatened by outraged public calling for them to be fired (to his own supervisor) for a forecast we got right but had a Charlotte broadcast station lie and say we were over-warning and the ignorant public believed the lie. The best part was we were not even allowed to defend ourselves. Being a meteorologist has a lot of perks, but public adoration is rarely one of them. Days like today (and the aforementioned) make me question how much longer I want to be in the field.
I pay a lot of attention to NWS products--always have even before I frequented here. A lot of my posts involve them in some way. (to the point there was some fun speculation I worked for RAH awhile back lol) I truly believe it's a valuable service well worth the money spent for the public good. (even if they should have done a warning for Durham/Orange last event..)
Speaking of the last event, my work opted to close based on NWS guidance. Would they have done that if they were going on the Weather Channel? Accuweather? WRAL? Whatever weather app is showing on their phone? These are rhetorical questions of course, and this last event wasn't life altering, but what if the next one is?
GeorgiaGirl
Member
Honestly, have to agree with this sadly.
There was already a lot of uproar about NOAA getting it wrong on where Helene was most impactful inland away from the beach, now imagine what could happen if you're not getting enough data out in the oceans for example to implement into the models, or worse yet, you get an outage for American weather models that takes longer to fix, if at all.
It's actually worse than that. "Probationary" in fed speak just means you're new to a duty station. Yes it can and does mean someone is fresh off the street, but a significant number of people are probationary because they changed agencies or took a promotion. I personally know a 10+ year DoE employee (and vet) that moved to DOI and was fired in this mess.
This is also likely to affect 24hr staffing at NWS Offices. Sure hope we don't have an active nocturnal tornado season this year.
In my line of work we're only allowed to make those calls based on "official" aka government guidance. I truly don't know what we'll do if it falls to the wayside. Almost sounds like we're living in the eastern bloc during the collapse of the USSR with services being reduced and shut down.
RDUHeatIsland
Member
Firing new probationary employees was probably just the start. The next phase may involve converting GS 13-15 employees to Schedule F which removes employment protections. For anybody unfamiliar with the GS scale, GS 13-15 are the most senior government roles. That means all lead meteorologists, program leaders, and administrators at NWS offices would be at risk of losing their jobs.
Sctvman
Member
Elon wants SpaceX and all of his enterprises to control things. And if you don’t agree with what he says, he doesn’t want you around.
GoDuke
Member
Biden admin also made cuts for 2025 for NOAA no one batted an eye at and I doubt no one will miss the DOGE cuts either.
climate.law.columbia.edu
NOAA Budget Cuts Proposed for FY2025 | Sabin Center for Climate Change Law
climate.law.columbia.edu
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GoDuke
Member
Brent
Member
Biden admin also made cuts for NOAA no one batted an eye at and I doubt no one will miss the DOGE cuts either.
NOAA Budget Cuts Proposed for FY2025 | Sabin Center for Climate Change Law
Yeah I dunno if it's actually went this far but they've always picked on NOAA to be honest or tried to
Going back to my point about the hurricane hunters most of those planes are older than anyone here.... It's been a struggle to even upgrade them and that didn't start with Trump for sure. It's been a constant story for years
We see the NWS radar holes all over too there's a lot of current issues even before this whatever it is
I think we should wait and see what happens...heck will the firings even hold up in court? There's a lot of things that remain to be seen. Trump most likely won't get everything he wants... I mean it's just a President right? That's what I've heard for years anyway.. I feel like everything political has been way overblown lately
Okay that's about as political as I think I can be
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I'd like to hear some specific qualifications about Dr. Neil Jacobs (who I have inside baseball knowledge -- including the fact he was once my professor at NCSU -- of and it's not good) that makes him so qualified. You want to talk about removing government waste he'd be a good place to start and I bet his salary is a lot higher than those that got let go yesterday. So get out of here with that garbage - the guy is a spineless political ladder climber and I've never heard a good word about him (another former colleague was also classmates with him).
Not only that, but Neil Jacobs was found to be involved with the Sharpie-gate lie / coverup. If this is how he can "modernize and improve" NWS I, nor anyone else, should want any part of it.
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NoSnowATL
Member
Good
Sometimes tough moves have to be made to right the ship. Just because some don’t agree with it doesn’t make it the wrong move. This country needed a drastic change and it’s getting one regardless. Can’t really comment on consequences until down the road, not in the moment.
LickWx
Member
This is just the beginning, our ability as a country to do good science is being cut at … the country’s advantage is it’s robust research culture and funding and that’s being cut, but not only that it’s being further politicized with politicians demanding things of scientists …. Politicians think they are everything … they think they are doctors, meteorologists, scientists … etc… elections have consequences
LickWx
Member
I'd like to hear some specific qualifications about Dr. Neil Jacobs (who I have inside baseball knowledge -- including the fact he was once my professor at NCSU -- of and it's not good) that makes him so qualified. You want to talk about removing government waste he'd be a good place to start and I bet his salary is a lot higher than those that got let go yesterday. So get out of here with that garbage - the guy is a spineless political ladder climber and I've never heard a good word about him (another former colleague was also classmates with him).
Not only that, but Neil Jacobs was found to be involved with the Sharpie-gate lie / coverup. If this is how he can "modernize and improve" NWS I, nor anyone else, should want any part of it.
Maybe he graduated from Trump university
3x state grad
fine but why noaa. what bloat is there. why punish the met grad who finally got a break and an offer to make 50k in reno nevada 2k miles from home just to have the rug pulled. i'm currently out of the industry but even then i'm crushed and gutted for the entire enterprise and my friends and classmates it puts a strain on... this sets us back decades.
and yeah sure you're going to hear similar pleading from every agency that gets cut, just funny that noaa was one of the first in line, which probably has the highest approval/understanding of why it is intrinsically *good* for the country out of any gov agency. i don't think the effects will be entirely felt yet, it will take years (unless nado season is a 2011 redux, in which staffing issues will rear their ugly head immediately). but this will likely begin a decades-long brain drain. more kids will make business decisions and choose other majors over meteorology. the remaining met students will choose private industry over the NWS because this shakeup will linger heavy in every mind. as for our current decision makers i get that their current mindset is, "yes, we want people to choose private industry"... i don't think this is the way to go for this field. if it makes me a liberal to want the NWS to employ our best and brightest and compensate them well so they stick around.. then call me joe biden. i mean jeez man. i'm just so gutted
Cad Wedge NC
Member
We can sit back and play "arm-chair quarterback" all day. There is fat in every branch of government. Just because this is our hobby makes us a little more sensitive to NOAA and questioning the cuts. However, this has got to happen, or our children and grandchildren are not going to have a solid America to call home. Everybody knows this. I felt the same way when my oldest son lost his job in a coal-fired power plant due to Biden's fossil fuel initiatives. So no, I will not be swayed.
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No one will die because a coal powered power plant closes. People will die when storms start catching us off guard because we cant release balloons or an office is so short staffed they cant adequately cover a massive severe outbreak.
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These are forecasters hired to do forecasting at NWS offices for the most part.
With all due respect, you are just flat out wrong. Unless you can prove to me with actual numbers and receipts where there is bloat or fat within the NWS, specifically, then you are wrong. If you're going to ruthlessly cut down qualified individuals that serve in a life-saving field, you better have specifics. This is all political gamesmanship. They couldn't go after any of the actual fat because those jobs are protected. So instead, they go after the weak who had just started their careers predominantly (or those who had just recently made a career change - truth be told, while I still sympathize with those, it's the early career ones that really enrage me because they don't have experience to fall back on and have been ruined).
This isn't just a hobby for some folks, this is their career. I have worked at NWS-RAH. I had an offer to start a career with NWS-ILM. I declined it. Why? Because I had a Masters of Science in Meteorology along with one year of NWS experience and got offered a starting salary < $40,000. That's some real fat right there, let me tell you.
hey, no foul intentions with this post, i respect you like i respect everyone i've been reading on these places for 13 years. what i don't understand is, why does it 'have' to happen? how does leaving the government 'as is' jeopardize america for future generations. asking genuinely. if it's the deficit, fine, but to me there are better ways to do this. bill clinton already set a blueprint. this "break things now, fix later" approach to me just involves way too much callousness for people's livelihoods. if we need cuts- go after the department of defense which is an organization that has failed every audit. put in some sensible tax hikes. i just think there are ways to do this that achieve our goals with much less cruelty for human beings and that treat institutions like the national weather service with respect for what they are and what they provide.
also if you're a mod and i'm getting too political feel free to nuke this post. i'm just trying to get a sense of why we need to burn the house down to cook a steak
Yes, as wx enthusiasts most of us are naturally biased against NWS cuts. But the FY 2024 NWS budget is all of ~$5/American. Why does the budget of a life-saving org. with that low of a cost need to be cut at all?
-US pop in 2024: 340 million
-FY 2024 NWS budget: $1,706 million
$1,706/340 = only ~$5/American for 2024 FY for NWS
SASQUATCH
Mobile, AL: Snow Capital of the South
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If they could just find a way to trim the fat on TWC, leave nothing but hotties, I'd be on board with that. 
Bigedd09
Member
I miss when weather wasn't so political
GoDuke
Member
I'd like to hear some specific qualifications about Dr. Neil Jacobs (who I have inside baseball knowledge -- including the fact he was once my professor at NCSU -- of and it's not good) that makes him so qualified. You want to talk about removing government waste he'd be a good place to start and I bet his salary is a lot higher than those that got let go yesterday. So get out of here with that garbage - the guy is a spineless political ladder climber and I've never heard a good word about him (another former colleague was also classmates with him).
Not only that, but Neil Jacobs was found to be involved with the Sharpie-gate lie / coverup. If this is how he can "modernize and improve" NWS I, nor anyone else, should want any part of it.
I take your word for it if this guys is a prick or isn’t qualified but we’re grasping at straws if sharpiegate is fraud or incompetence or whatever no matter NOAA policy on altering maps. Anyway I thought it was the President that took his sharpie and just wrote on that map right in front of everyone? And so what if Trump mentioned Alabama in that tweet. Are we holding the other side to the same standard here? No.
GoDuke
Member
Idk if these numbers are accurate here but I’ve seen NOAA has 12k or 13k employees and 6 or 700 new probationary employees got laid off so far? I don’t think essential functions related to making forecasts or public safety will be disrupted here. Maybe increased workload on some and probably having to make an office pool to buy their own coffee.Yeah I dunno if it's actually went this far but they've always picked on NOAA to be honest or tried to
Going back to my point about the hurricane hunters most of those planes are older than anyone here.... It's been a struggle to even upgrade them and that didn't start with Trump for sure. It's been a constant story for years
We see the NWS radar holes all over too there's a lot of current issues even before this whatever it is
I think we should wait and see what happens...heck will the firings even hold up in court? There's a lot of things that remain to be seen. Trump most likely won't get everything he wants... I mean it's just a President right? That's what I've heard for years anyway.. I feel like everything political has been way overblown lately
Okay that's about as political as I think I can be
That's what I was wondering. These are essentially new hires right? Are they "retiring" long term critical employees too or something?
They’re both new hires and newly promoted people that got laid off.
I'm sworn to silence on the details, but if what I have been told is accurate, at least one WFO somewhere in the CONUS is going to have a very difficult time maintaining operations with the amount of staff lost between the layoffs and resignations that have occurred this year. I don't think people realize the physical, mental and at times emotional toll this job does to these people working these rotating shifts even fully staffed. When you start having to work extra shifts, the physical toll it takes on you becomes impossible to handle long-term. I sincerely believe if this is allowed to stand that the NWS is in trouble.