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Ukraine

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lexxnchloe said:
I still have my doubts about any propaganda coming from Ukraine




Also, i dont think there was any real justification for what Obama did to Libya. Should he be tried as a war criminal as well as Bush?

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I don't deny there's some level of a double standard, but let's not act like the destruction in Libya was purely on NATO. There was a Civil War happening there that would've happened with or without NATO airstrikes. Who's to say those buildings were even destroyed by said airstrikes?
 
lexxnchloe said:
I still have my doubts about any propaganda coming from Ukraine




Also, i dont think there was any real justification for what Obama did to Libya. Should he be tried as a war criminal as well as Bush?

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Meh there are plenty of photo's of dead people in Mosul.....there is no evidence that US or NATO forces executed civilians, I am sure there were some cases of rape and murder.

The Libya civil war started well before the US and NATO got involved, the bombing campaign did not target any civilian structures.....in total NATO/US forces are responsible for 72 civilian deaths from the air campaign. Libya had been in a civil war state for several years before NATO involvement.....the US trying to influence that war to prevent another Kaddafi type is not a war crime.

Putin invaded a sovereign nation without provocation, his troops are killing innocent civilians.....its not even close to the same thing.
 
I tried to socialize this what feels likes months ago, the below articulates it well. If the US, not NATO, were to execute a no fly west of the Dnipro River.

“Why the F-22 Isn’t in Europe?

Dario Leone of TheAviationGeekClub offers a solid argument for why the F-22 would be the aircraft to enforce a NATO no-fly zone – and cited commentary Air Combat Analyst Connor Hall, who suggested that “8-12 Raptors could sanitize the skies over Ukraine within an hour.””

Taking out installations in Crimea along the way…

www.19fortyfive.com

F-22 Raptor: The Stealth Fighter That Can Enforce a Ukraine No-Fly Zone

The F-22 Raptor is respected for its dogfighting ability and air-to-air maneuverability attributes and would be ideal for a No-Fly Zone.
www.19fortyfive.com www.19fortyfive.com
 
lexxnchloe said:
Indeed yes. Putin, right or wrong, sees NATO and Ukraine as a threat so he waged war on Ukraine. Obama and NATO saw Libya as a threat and they waged war on Libya. From Putin's perspective he is justified, Obama and NATO think they were justified. The dead dont give a damn. There are many war crimes to go around. Only my opinion, but i feel Obama, Bush, and NATO could easily be sitting in the dock next to Putin.
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Civilians get killed in every war. We even have soldiers who do unthinkable things, most often due to long, consecutive deployments that desensitize you in ways you couldn't imagine. I still have connections to many SF guys who are directly involved over there training. You haven't even seen the worst yet in what is not only war crimes but inhumane, unthinkable and dispicable treatment of human beings. Things that American soldiers just dont do except in the most isolated cases and rarely if ever to innocent civilians
 
WeatherNC said:
I tried to socialize this what feels likes months ago, the below articulates it well. If the US, not NATO, were to execute a no fly west of the Dnipro River.

“Why the F-22 Isn’t in Europe?

Dario Leone of TheAviationGeekClub offers a solid argument for why the F-22 would be the aircraft to enforce a NATO no-fly zone – and cited commentary Air Combat Analyst Connor Hall, who suggested that “8-12 Raptors could sanitize the skies over Ukraine within an hour.””

Taking out installations in Crimea along the way…

www.19fortyfive.com

F-22 Raptor: The Stealth Fighter That Can Enforce a Ukraine No-Fly Zone

The F-22 Raptor is respected for its dogfighting ability and air-to-air maneuverability attributes and would be ideal for a No-Fly Zone.
www.19fortyfive.com www.19fortyfive.com
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I think this war has gone to show how superior the US military really is. The USAF would’ve had air supremacy within days over Ukraine, something the Russian Air Force still hasn’t really achieved. The Russians are unable to demonstrate combined arms like we are able to. I doubt the Chinese would be any better, either.

Of course, intervening ratchets up the prospects of nuclear war, though, which is why I don’t support it, but I have no doubt the US could wipe the skies clear of Russian air assets in short order if they wanted to.
 
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Sandbar said:
Civilians get killed in every war. We even have soldiers who do unthinkable things, most often due to long, consecutive deployments that desensitize you in ways you couldn't imagine. I still have connections to many SF guys who are directly involved over there training. You haven't even seen the worst yet in what is not only war crimes but inhumane, unthinkable and dispicable treatment of human beings. Things that American soldiers just dont do except in the most isolated cases and rarely if ever to innocent civilians
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I dont doubt that at all.
 
superjames1992 said:
I think this war has gone to show how superior the US military really is. The USAF would’ve had air supremacy within days over Ukraine, something the Russian Air Force still hasn’t really achieved. The Russians are unable to demonstrate combined arms like we are about to. I doubt the Chinese would be any better, either.

Of course, intervening ratchets up the prospects of nuclear war, though, which is why I don’t support it, but I have no doubt the US could wipe the skies clear of Russian air assets in short order if they wanted to.
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RQ-180 played a significant role in this without detection, proof concept for B-21. China is a peer in the 21st century, Russia is not. With most western countries and Southeast Asia/Australia, China is in a spot.

US and Russia combined or independent could make this planet uninhabitable in short order, add China in to this equation ~10-15 years.
 
VegasEagle said:
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Yeah but the way they did it just means its severely propped up.....

www.npr.org

How Russia rescued the ruble

The Russian ruble lost nearly half its value when Russia invaded Ukraine. Since then, it has been the top-performing currency in the world.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

On Feb. 28, the Central Bank of Russia increased interest rates to 20%.

Government requirement on Russian businesses that 80% of any money that those businesses make overseas has to be swapped into rubles. This means that a Russian steelmaker that makes 100 million euros selling steel to a company in France has to turn around and change 80 million of those euros into rubles, regardless of the exchange rate.

The Kremlin also issued an edict banning Russian brokers from selling securities owned by foreigners.

Russian citizens themselves have been targeted by the government, which has restricted them from transferring money abroad. The initial ban said all foreign exchange loans and transfers were to be suspended

The head of the Central Bank of Russia, Elvira Nabiullina, is essentially playing Potemkin to Putin's Catherine, using a range of tools to make the ruble look like a currency that has value when in fact very few people outside Russia want to buy a single ruble unless they absolutely have to and when many people inside Russia don't really want rubles either.
 
A tweet i came across as he is referring to the current coverage of the war. I have always thought if the media goes in lockstep in 1 direction the wisest course for me is to go in the opposite direction and i will ultimately be right.

 
lexxnchloe said:
A tweet i came across as he is referring to the current coverage of the war. I have always thought if the media goes in lockstep in 1 direction the wisest course for me is to go in the opposite direction and i will ultimately be right.

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No one is stifling debate, no one is pushing propaganda for Ukraine.....people need to use context, common sense etc to filter out BS.

In the end there is no way to spin this to put Putin/Russia in the right here....none. None of this would be happening if Putin had not invaded Ukraine.
 
Downeastnc said:
No one is stifling debate, no one is pushing propaganda for Ukraine.....people need to use context, common sense etc to filter out BS.

In the end there is no way to spin this to put Putin/Russia in the right here....none. None of this would be happening if Putin had not invaded Ukraine.
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Right, wish Obama would have done something about in 2014 rather than talking about how "JV" ISIS was.
 
lexxnchloe said:
A tweet i came across as he is referring to the current coverage of the war. I have always thought if the media goes in lockstep in 1 direction the wisest course for me is to go in the opposite direction and i will ultimately be right.

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The Western media was in lockstep during World War 2, too. Were they in the wrong?
 
Cindy131 said:
There were people who did not believe that the Holocaust happened back then. In fact there are still some people today who believe it did not happen and that it was staged.
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Probably the same people who think the Bucha massacre was staged. And the reason for those thoughts is not just a healthy sense of skepticism...
 
Downeastnc said:
No one is stifling debate, no one is pushing propaganda for Ukraine.....people need to use context, common sense etc to filter out BS.

In the end there is no way to spin this to put Putin/Russia in the right here....none. None of this would be happening if Putin had not invaded Ukraine.
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Vlad probably got his wires crossed. I mean his biggest customer base, even today for oil,NG is the west. And how much is a small incursuon? Just the coastline, few square miles around Kiev?

"I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do."
 
FPwQ5WcVQAUn_oS
 
severestorm said:
This is wrong. Egging on a nuclear power will backfire. The world is watching America.
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US and Russia both have been doing this along with other countries. It does not bother me. It is to be expected. Real Intel will not be blasted on the internet. They are playing mental games with each other and they know it. I do think there is a lot more evidence of Russia committing war crimes but NATO or US are hiding it from the public. With satellite and drones, there are bound to be a lot more images/videos not being shown. They might reveal later or might not to try and keep world peace.
 
Cindy131 said:
US and Russia both have been doing this along with other countries. It does not bother me. It is to be expected. Real Intel will not be blasted on the internet. I do think there is a lot more evidence of Russia committing war crimes but NATO or US are hiding it from the public. With satellite and drones, there are bound to be a lot more images/videos not being shown. They might reveal later or might not to try and keep world peace.
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You may be fine with intelligence gaslighting you, but i'm not.
 
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