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Ukraine Banter Thread

SENC said:
Most people cannot imagine that the media and google would lie like they do. Yet, they do & it's SAD, that Boobis American(s) believe everything, watched ON tee vee

I have become accustomed to the fact that not only do most people not live in the same reality that I do, but that none of them want to hear about it.

Hearing about facts that offer a different point of view than offered by the media seems to unsettle them and most people seem to be unable to handle it.
Click to expand...
You are struggling with confirmation bias. You likely seek out information sources that confirm your opinions. The first fight is to make sure you are ingesting good information. I use this chart when I teach first year students at Duke about information literacy. There's nothing wrong with ignorance - quite the opposite in fact. I am willing to help you find good, consistent sources if you want the help.

Media-Bias-Chart-9.0_Jan-2022-Unlicensed-Social-Media_Hi_Res-1200x950.jpg
 
BullCityWx said:
You are struggling with confirmation bias. You likely seek out information sources that confirm your opinions. The first fight is to make sure you are ingesting good information. I use this chart when I teach first year students at Duke about information literacy. There's nothing wrong with ignorance - quite the opposite in fact. I am willing to help you find good, consistent sources if you want the help.

View attachment 116868
Click to expand...

This is why AP and Reuters are my go to for trying to vet stuff I see on the other sources....
 
Downeastnc said:
This is why AP and Reuters are my go to for trying to vet stuff I see on the other sources....
Click to expand...
News Nation, as well, seems to cut down the middle as best as I can tell. They are on spectrum here in the triangle.

We have to go do better in this country with information literacy. People seem to struggle, even me sometimes, with separating news from opinion. It's really becoming a national emergency.
 
BullCityWx said:
You are struggling with confirmation bias. You likely seek out information sources that confirm your opinions. The first fight is to make sure you are ingesting good information. I use this chart when I teach first year students at Duke about information literacy. There's nothing wrong with ignorance - quite the opposite in fact. I am willing to help you find good, consistent sources if you want the help.

View attachment 116868
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but all these "trustworthy" sites reported Trump's bogus 7 hour "missing" call log on Jan 6.
 
BullCityWx said:
You are struggling with confirmation bias. You likely seek out information sources that confirm your opinions. The first fight is to make sure you are ingesting good information. I use this chart when I teach first year students at Duke about information literacy. There's nothing wrong with ignorance - quite the opposite in fact. I am willing to help you find good, consistent sources if you want the help.

View attachment 116868
Click to expand...
Did you have your fact checkers make sure these sources are "exactly" where they need to be? Looks like a big ole soup bowl of BS to me especially when it comes from a college professor in charge of indoctrinating (I mean teaching) youth.....But Im sure YOU would never do that
 
Sandbar said:
Did you have your fact checkers make sure these sources are "exactly" where they need to be? Looks like a big ole soup bowl of BS to me especially when it comes from a college professor in charge of indoctrinating (I mean teaching) youth.....But Im sure YOU would never do that
Click to expand...
My college professor promoted domestic terrorism and this was almost 10 years ago. I shudder to think what people are being taught now.
 
Sandbar said:
Did you have your fact checkers make sure these sources are "exactly" where they need to be? Looks like a big ole soup bowl of BS to me especially when it comes from a college professor in charge of indoctrinating (I mean teaching) youth.....But Im sure YOU would never do that
Click to expand...
See, you people just….you break my brain. This is the best sourced media bias chart that has ever existed. It is non partisan in every sense of the word. It was funded solely by individuals and exists to counteract political polarization.

It is also deeply offensive to me that you think that I am “indoctrinating” students. I have my opinions and beliefs like anyone else. Many people in high Ed do, both left and right. However, my job when I teach information literacy is to teach our students how to find the best and non biased sources for their research and scholarly work.

When you eat your crayons, do you go for name brand or store brand?
 
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BullCityWx said:
See, you people just….you break my brain. This is the best sourced media bias chart that has ever existed. It is non partisan in every sense of the word. It was funded solely by individuals and exists to counteract political polarization.

It is also deeply offensive to me that you think that I am “indoctrinating” students. I have my opinions and beliefs like anyone else. Many people in high Ed do, both left and right. However, my job when I teach information literacy is to teach our students how to find the best and non biased sources for their research and scholarly work.

When you eat your crayons, do you go for name brand or store brand?
Click to expand...
I like whatever crayons the government puts in my rucksack. Im sure its the greatest, bestest sourced media bias chart in the world but that means squat! Does it mean information is wrong if it's source is biased in one way or the other by your chart? How do you know which one is right at any given moment on any given subject? You think because a source of information leans one direction it isn't to be trusted? What you SHOULD DO is include in that chart common freakin sense. I hope that doesn't offend someone of your obvious intelligence
 
Sandbar said:
I like whatever crayons the government puts in my rucksack. Im sure its the greatest, bestest sourced media bias chart in the world but that means squat! Does it mean information is wrong if it's source is biased in one way or the other by your chart? How do you know which one is right at any given moment on any given subject? You think because a source of information leans one direction it isn't to be trusted? What you SHOULD DO is include in that chart common freakin sense. I hope that doesn't offend someone of your obvious intelligence
Click to expand...

That is literally what that chart is though, its a chart that shows which way and to what extent a source leans and how correct the information is, so therefor we can determine which sources are slanted or not. Plenty of outlets report factual information but with their spin on it.....

For example

5c1.jpg
 
Downeastnc said:
That is literally what that chart is though, its a chart that shows which way and to what extent a source leans and how correct the information is, so therefor we can determine which sources are slanted or not. Plenty of outlets report factual information but with their spin on it.....

For example

5c1.jpg
Click to expand...
The Babylon bee is purposefully satirical so that doesn't help prove anything. I will say almost every source of media has some agenda. Sites on the extreme end and sites most accessed have this bias. Also remember opinion exists so if it's some person saying it with 0 objectivity he or she is just speaking opinion, NOT FACT! I don't pay attention to any media source opinions I form my own from events that happen. If it's reported across the political spectrum then it's a valid event despite the opinion.

And a side note regarding colleges again, as a college student I'm unsure how a lecture on the deepest elements of an operating system indoctrinates anyone. You take one or two history classes and that's all they can try to get you at. However I learned in high school think for myself and form actual logical opinions, not to listen to a tinfoil spouting off about something on the other side of the world that just creates political dirt and does nothing to solve the real problems we have. Don't focus on distractions, focus on real problems. Now back to political thread #38372 that totally was Ukraine related all along
 
Probably voting for the latest SCOTUS who lessened peodiphile senteces every chance she got.
Same Rep whomever it is probably endorses the sex ed being indoctrinated for K-3 graders now. We dont teach Algebra, Physics and Chemistry in K-3 for a reason. But yet One Party plus a few establishment members from the other party think they are ready to learn anything sexual. Hetro, trans ,homo, pansexual[whatever that means]. The Spiral continues.
 
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Placing this in Bater, because,, WELL, some TRUTH here & News Reporting
---------------------------------

A major crisis erupts between Russia and NATO focusing on the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad in the Baltic.

Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have decided to close their land borders with Russia and Belarus. The event completely isolates and cuts off the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad with Russia as the direct Russia-Kalinkrad air connection has been interrupted due to sanctions.

This move is a declared cause of war for Russia, something that has been repeated many times...

Under siege?????

The Minister of Infrastructure of Ukraine Mustafa Nayyem noted that Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will completely close the land corridors with Russia and Belarus in the next 48-72 hours, thus completely isolating Moscow.

Last week, we formally called for the closure of motorways with Russia and Belarus. They responded to our appeal. We are waiting for the final result , the Ukrainian minister added.

It should be noted that after the war in Ukraine, the European Union closed its airspace to Russian aircraft. Therefore, Russian transport is carried out only by road and rail.

Moscow warns Cause of war for Kaliningrad
Lithuanias decision to close the border with Belarus may end with the violent (!) Construction of a corridor to Kaliningrad

In this case, any transfer to and from Russia via Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will be excluded.

Lithuanias decision to close its border with Belarus will call into question communications between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad. The Russian enclave joins with the Russian Federation through Lithuania and Belarus.

It is possible that the ban on Vilnius by the Russians crossing the border could lead to the violent creation of a corridor from the mainland to Kaliningrad, with all the ensuing consequences.

Russia will once again be forced to take extreme measures to defend its national interests and territorial integrity, he said .

Lithuania is ready to defend the Suwalki Corridor in the event of hostilities. Poland and other NATO countries will help it.

This was stated by the commander of the Lithuanian army, Lieutenant General Valdemaras Rupshis.

Lithuania and Poland have developed a plan for the joint defense of the Suwalki Corridor a strategically important 64 km section of the Lithuanian-Polish border between Belarus and the Kaliningrad region of Russia.

Vilnius fears that if this corridor is blocked by Belarussian or Russian troops, Lithuania will lose its land corridor and be completely cut off from the rest of Europe along with Latvia and Estonia.

For this reason, Lithuania and Poland have developed a detailed plan for the defense of the Suwalki Corridor, according to which a joint Polish-Lithuanian strike group has been set up to hold Russian troops until an allied force approaches.

These forces will come from Latvia, Estonia, as well as other NATO forces stationed in the Baltic states.

A detailed plan has been drawn up to determine the units position, maneuvers, support fire and air defense elements, said Lt. Gen. Rupshis.

If Russia builds a land corridor from Belarus to the Kaliningrad region along the Suwalki Corridor, then Moscow will be able to strike in any direction. The Baltic will be cut off by land from Europe.
-----------------------------------------------------------

The closing of the borders by the balctic states and thus isolating Kaliningrad, will bring a direct and very ferocious attack by Russia.

I expect people who have been unimpressed with the lack of Shock and Awe from the Russian military will very soon see how light handed the Russians are being in Ukraine.
 
SENC said:
Placing this in Bater, because,, WELL, some TRUTH here & News Reporting
---------------------------------

A major crisis erupts between Russia and NATO focusing on the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad in the Baltic.

Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have decided to close their land borders with Russia and Belarus. The event completely isolates and cuts off the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad with Russia as the direct Russia-Kalinkrad air connection has been interrupted due to sanctions.

This move is a declared cause of war for Russia, something that has been repeated many times...

Under siege?????

The Minister of Infrastructure of Ukraine Mustafa Nayyem noted that Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will completely close the land corridors with Russia and Belarus in the next 48-72 hours, thus completely isolating Moscow.

Last week, we formally called for the closure of motorways with Russia and Belarus. They responded to our appeal. We are waiting for the final result , the Ukrainian minister added.

It should be noted that after the war in Ukraine, the European Union closed its airspace to Russian aircraft. Therefore, Russian transport is carried out only by road and rail.

Moscow warns Cause of war for Kaliningrad
Lithuanias decision to close the border with Belarus may end with the violent (!) Construction of a corridor to Kaliningrad

In this case, any transfer to and from Russia via Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will be excluded.

Lithuanias decision to close its border with Belarus will call into question communications between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad. The Russian enclave joins with the Russian Federation through Lithuania and Belarus.

It is possible that the ban on Vilnius by the Russians crossing the border could lead to the violent creation of a corridor from the mainland to Kaliningrad, with all the ensuing consequences.

Russia will once again be forced to take extreme measures to defend its national interests and territorial integrity, he said .

Lithuania is ready to defend the Suwalki Corridor in the event of hostilities. Poland and other NATO countries will help it.

This was stated by the commander of the Lithuanian army, Lieutenant General Valdemaras Rupshis.

Lithuania and Poland have developed a plan for the joint defense of the Suwalki Corridor a strategically important 64 km section of the Lithuanian-Polish border between Belarus and the Kaliningrad region of Russia.

Vilnius fears that if this corridor is blocked by Belarussian or Russian troops, Lithuania will lose its land corridor and be completely cut off from the rest of Europe along with Latvia and Estonia.

For this reason, Lithuania and Poland have developed a detailed plan for the defense of the Suwalki Corridor, according to which a joint Polish-Lithuanian strike group has been set up to hold Russian troops until an allied force approaches.

These forces will come from Latvia, Estonia, as well as other NATO forces stationed in the Baltic states.

A detailed plan has been drawn up to determine the units position, maneuvers, support fire and air defense elements, said Lt. Gen. Rupshis.

If Russia builds a land corridor from Belarus to the Kaliningrad region along the Suwalki Corridor, then Moscow will be able to strike in any direction. The Baltic will be cut off by land from Europe.
-----------------------------------------------------------

The closing of the borders by the balctic states and thus isolating Kaliningrad, will bring a direct and very ferocious attack by Russia.

I expect people who have been unimpressed with the lack of Shock and Awe from the Russian military will very soon see how light handed the Russians are being in Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Light handed? Entire cities have been razed.
 
SENC said:
Placing this in Bater, because,, WELL, some TRUTH here & News Reporting
---------------------------------

A major crisis erupts between Russia and NATO focusing on the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad in the Baltic.

Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have decided to close their land borders with Russia and Belarus. The event completely isolates and cuts off the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad with Russia as the direct Russia-Kalinkrad air connection has been interrupted due to sanctions.

This move is a declared cause of war for Russia, something that has been repeated many times...

Under siege?????

The Minister of Infrastructure of Ukraine Mustafa Nayyem noted that Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will completely close the land corridors with Russia and Belarus in the next 48-72 hours, thus completely isolating Moscow.

Last week, we formally called for the closure of motorways with Russia and Belarus. They responded to our appeal. We are waiting for the final result , the Ukrainian minister added.

It should be noted that after the war in Ukraine, the European Union closed its airspace to Russian aircraft. Therefore, Russian transport is carried out only by road and rail.

Moscow warns Cause of war for Kaliningrad
Lithuanias decision to close the border with Belarus may end with the violent (!) Construction of a corridor to Kaliningrad

In this case, any transfer to and from Russia via Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will be excluded.

Lithuanias decision to close its border with Belarus will call into question communications between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad. The Russian enclave joins with the Russian Federation through Lithuania and Belarus.

It is possible that the ban on Vilnius by the Russians crossing the border could lead to the violent creation of a corridor from the mainland to Kaliningrad, with all the ensuing consequences.

Russia will once again be forced to take extreme measures to defend its national interests and territorial integrity, he said .

Lithuania is ready to defend the Suwalki Corridor in the event of hostilities. Poland and other NATO countries will help it.

This was stated by the commander of the Lithuanian army, Lieutenant General Valdemaras Rupshis.

Lithuania and Poland have developed a plan for the joint defense of the Suwalki Corridor a strategically important 64 km section of the Lithuanian-Polish border between Belarus and the Kaliningrad region of Russia.

Vilnius fears that if this corridor is blocked by Belarussian or Russian troops, Lithuania will lose its land corridor and be completely cut off from the rest of Europe along with Latvia and Estonia.

For this reason, Lithuania and Poland have developed a detailed plan for the defense of the Suwalki Corridor, according to which a joint Polish-Lithuanian strike group has been set up to hold Russian troops until an allied force approaches.

These forces will come from Latvia, Estonia, as well as other NATO forces stationed in the Baltic states.

A detailed plan has been drawn up to determine the units position, maneuvers, support fire and air defense elements, said Lt. Gen. Rupshis.

If Russia builds a land corridor from Belarus to the Kaliningrad region along the Suwalki Corridor, then Moscow will be able to strike in any direction. The Baltic will be cut off by land from Europe.
-----------------------------------------------------------

The closing of the borders by the balctic states and thus isolating Kaliningrad, will bring a direct and very ferocious attack by Russia.

I expect people who have been unimpressed with the lack of Shock and Awe from the Russian military will very soon see how light handed the Russians are being in Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Yeah except this is all -------- propaganda.....there is currently no plan to restrict the Suwalki Corridor

www.lrt.lt

Lithuania can’t cut off rail transit from Russia to Kaliningrad – minister

Lithuania cannot unilaterally cut off railway transit between mainland Russia and the exclave of Kaliningrad, according ...
www.lrt.lt www.lrt.lt

If imposed, an EU embargo on Russian and Belarusian trucks would not apply to Kaliningrad, according to the minister.

“There are currently discussions on banning Russian and Belarusian trucks from entering the EU’s territory, and an exception is made for Kaliningrad,” he said.

Prime Minister Ingrida Šimonytė also told LRT TV on Tuesday that Lithuania could not unilaterally stop the Kaliningrad transit, but added that Vilnius was in consultations with the EU about the issue.
 
severestorm said:
Right, wish Obama would have done something about in 2014 rather than talking about how "JV" ISIS was.
Click to expand...

Doing this here since this is political banter, I see you conveniently skipping 2016-2020....look this is no one's fault but Putin's it really is that simple. Putin invaded Ukraine, that is the issue at hand. You guys are always trying to turn this into a political gotcha against Obama or Biden....but you ignore Trump's inaction, hell Trump was threatening to leave NATO, said the US would not automatically defend countries in NATO etc. Putin was really hoping Trump won a second term, this invasion would have been a lot easier with a lot less sanctions etc if Trump was in office right now, the US would not have done anything.

thehill.com

No, Trump would not have stopped Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Trump’s foreign policies actually served to embolden Putin and weaken the trans-Atlantic alliance.
thehill.com thehill.com
 
Downeastnc said:
Doing this here since this is political banter, I see you conveniently skipping 2016-2020....look this is no one's fault but Putin's it really is that simple. Putin invaded Ukraine, that is the issue at hand. You guys are always trying to turn this into a political gotcha against Obama or Biden....but you ignore Trump's inaction, hell Trump was threatening to leave NATO, said the US would not automatically defend countries in NATO etc. Putin was really hoping Trump won a second term, this invasion would have been a lot easier with a lot less sanctions etc if Trump was in office right now, the US would not have done anything.

thehill.com

No, Trump would not have stopped Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Trump’s foreign policies actually served to embolden Putin and weaken the trans-Atlantic alliance.
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
Just because Trump did nothing doesn't mean OBama doing nothing was acceptable. Obama was Commander in Chief and he failed to quell Russia during and right after their invasion. My uncle's life would have been better and PTSD free and his workers would possibly still have their lives today if they did something.
 
severestorm said:
Just because Trump did nothing doesn't mean OBama doing nothing was acceptable. Obama was Commander in Chief and he failed to quell Russia during and right after their invasion. My uncle's life would have been better and PTSD free and his workers would possibly still have their lives today if they did something.
Click to expand...

I agree, but you dont seem to concerned with Trump's inaction for 4 years versus Obama....and Obama did impose sanctions etc, strongly disputed Crimea's annexation and vowed the US would not recognize any claim of Russia's. Trump on the other hand not so much....I mean what signal does this send other than go ahead take an other bite of Ukraine we probably wont care.

www.rferl.org

Trump Doesn't Rule Out Recognizing Russia's Annexation Of Crimea

U.S. President Donald Trump, speaking two weeks before a planned summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, has declined to rule out recognizing Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula.
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
 
Downeastnc said:
I agree, but you dont seem to concerned with Trump's inaction for 4 years versus Obama....and Obama did impose sanctions etc, strongly disputed Crimea's annexation and vowed the US would not recognize any claim of Russia's. Trump on the other hand not so much....I mean what signal does this send other than go ahead take an other bite of Ukraine we probably wont care.

www.rferl.org

Trump Doesn't Rule Out Recognizing Russia's Annexation Of Crimea

U.S. President Donald Trump, speaking two weeks before a planned summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin, has declined to rule out recognizing Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula.
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
Click to expand...
Why when Obama does something wrong people want to throw trump into the mix to gaslight? Unbelievable.
 
severestorm said:
Why when Obama does something wrong people want to throw trump into the mix to gaslight? Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

I mean I could just as easily say why do people blame Obama for stuff but skip over worse things Trump did concerning the same thing....

Obama should have sent more weapons to Ukraine, there should have been these kind of sanction we see now back in 2014 when Russia took Crimea. The problem also did not disappear in 2016 only to pop back up in 2020.....
 
Downeastnc said:
I mean I could just as easily say why do people blame Obama for stuff but skip over worse things Trump did concerning the same thing....

Obama should have sent more weapons to Ukraine, there should have been these kind of sanction we see now back in 2014 when Russia took Crimea. The problem also did not disappear in 2016 only to pop back up in 2020.....
Click to expand...
thank you
 
Downeastnc said:
Doing this here since this is political banter, I see you conveniently skipping 2016-2020....look this is no one's fault but Putin's it really is that simple. Putin invaded Ukraine, that is the issue at hand. You guys are always trying to turn this into a political gotcha against Obama or Biden....but you ignore Trump's inaction, hell Trump was threatening to leave NATO, said the US would not automatically defend countries in NATO etc. Putin was really hoping Trump won a second term, this invasion would have been a lot easier with a lot less sanctions etc if Trump was in office right now, the US would not have done anything.

thehill.com

No, Trump would not have stopped Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Trump’s foreign policies actually served to embolden Putin and weaken the trans-Atlantic alliance.
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
Trump told Nato to annie up their deficit/pay bills and Preached, not told,preached/harped on them to get off Russian oil. 2018

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump launched a sharp public attack on Germany on Wednesday for supporting a Baltic Sea gas pipeline deal with Russia, saying Berlin had become "a captive to Russia" and he criticized it for failing to raise defense spending more.


Trump, meeting reporters with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, before a NATO summit in Brussels, said it was "very inappropriate" that the United States was paying for European defense against Russia while Germany, the biggest European economy, was supporting gas deals with Moscow.


Trump was due to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the summit later in the day and will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki on Monday.
 
NATO AND A lot of the west post early 90's went to sleep at the wheel. You have to invest in your defense continously and the deterence it serves, keeps wars like whats happening from ever getting started. Like all insurance, its a necessary evil. Living without it will eventually catch up to you and force you to pay a price you cant afford.
 
NCSNOW said:
NATO AND A lot of the west post early 90's went to sleep at the wheel. You have to invest in your defense continously and the deterence it serves, keeps wars like whats happening from ever getting started. Like all insurance, its a necessary evil. Living without it will eventually catch up to you and force you to pay a price you cant afford.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't they go to sleep when they have the assurances that America will pay the bill.
 
NCSNOW said:
NATO AND A lot of the west post early 90's went to sleep at the wheel. You have to invest in your defense continously and the deterence it serves, keeps wars like whats happening from ever getting started. Like all insurance, its a necessary evil. Living without it will eventually catch up to you and force you to pay a price you cant afford.
Click to expand...
What exactly do you think the US could have done to prevent the war Putin started in Ukraine? I'm interested in hearing what you got on this
 
ghost1 said:
What exactly do you think the US could have done to prevent the war Putin started in Ukraine? I'm interested in hearing what you got on this
Click to expand...
The main thing we could have done is not screw around with their request to join NATO. We should have said NO flat out and not play around with maybe or maybe not. NATO has gone the way of Unions. It has gotten too big and outgrown its original purpose
 
Sandbar said:
The main thing we could have done is not screw around with their request to join NATO. We should have said NO flat out and not play around with maybe or maybe not. NATO has gone the way of Unions. It has gotten too big and outgrown its original purpose
Click to expand...
How about us helping them with military aid and strengthen their air defense and land based missile capability just in case one day Putin might want to try and flex his muscles and go land grabbing and civilian murdering? But instead we WITHHOLD $400M of military aid for politics and hero worshiping.
 
ghost1 said:
How about us helping them with military aid and strengthen their air defense and land based missile capability just in case one day Putin might want to try and flex his muscles and go land grabbing and civilian murdering? But instead we WITHHOLD $400M of military aid for politics and hero worshiping.
Click to expand...
The aid to Ukraine was delayed not denied and has absolutely NOTHING to do with Putins decision to invade the country nor would it have prevented it in any way, shape or form
 
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