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Pattern December, Make analogs relevant again

Wow. The two waves are so close to each other. The 2nd one is more suppressed which gives me more hope of scoring on the 2nd one than the first one, but you can see the potential. It's there. Hell, there might even be a third wave coming up around hour 324.
 
Really, what would you rather see? A run that is amplified and too warm or the weak wave with cold air? We're still far enough away and there can be more changes. This won't be the final solution.
Problem is, there's not that much cold air for anything but cold rain at the most for Atlanta, Birmingham into Columbia even if it is suppressed right now verbatim
 
The storm moved up in time it's just weaker
Yeah but the setup for the one that moved up has go to hell for a big SE winter storm . If the H5 pattern on the 12z were to actually verify it favors a late bloomer . Looks nothing like what we’ve seen the past few days . Now the good setup has been pushed to the day 8-10 period .
 
Yeah but the setup for the one that moved up has go to hell for a big SE winter storm . If the H5 pattern on the 12z were to actually verify it favors a late bloomer . Looks nothing like what we’ve seen the past few days . Now the good setup has been pushed to the day 8-10 period .
Yeah if that verified and the storm strengthen, you'd have nothing but cold rain for much of the board except for NC mountains perhaps
 
Problem is, there's not that much cold air for anything but cold rain at the most for Atlanta, Birmingham into Columbia even if it is suppressed right now verbatim

Temps don't really matter when you're talking about this land...it'll work itself out if something actually happens.
 
So much crying for a great looking pattern, and why we are looking at details of a crappy op model run! Trends are great for 7-10 days of fun
 
Can't remember the last time we were this progged for wintry weather. Great to have something to actually track. More fun chasing a pattern than a 'thread the needle' event
 
Yeah but the setup for the one that moved up has go to hell for a big SE winter storm . If the H5 pattern on the 12z were to actually verify it favors a late bloomer . Looks nothing like what we’ve seen the past few days . Now the good setup has been pushed to the day 8-10 period .
Until you get amplitude along the west coast you are going to see these late bloomer looks. The GFS loves to spike that ridge in the long term, we will chase this unicorn forever
 
Yeah if that verified and the storm strengthen, you'd have nothing but cold rain for much of the board except for NC mountains perhaps
No worries about that. It’s a great setup with a developing low south of Louisiana with a pressing high moving down through the plains . Won’t matter though it’s 9 days out . Zero chance of verifying
 
Yeah but the setup for the one that moved up has go to hell for a big SE winter storm . If the H5 pattern on the 12z were to actually verify it favors a late bloomer . Looks nothing like what we’ve seen the past few days . Now the good setup has been pushed to the day 8-10 period .
Hey, Charlie,
Why are you borrowing from last year's posts? ... LOL ... :rolleyes:
Best!
Phil
 
GFS is all over the place and throwing darts with the specifics, but the good thing is it still ends up with a nice winter storm.
 
Thanks for the reminder. Hopefully we don't keep up with this wild goose winter storm chase forever...
Wild goose chases for snow, are all we have! Atleast we're not chasing cool downs to 50s , as a relief from the 70s, like the last two winters!
 
Just a reminder to everyone singing doom and gloom and complaining about no snow, bad pattern, Nina conditions, pattern will get worse in mid January and we will torch the rest of the winter.....I could probably go on.

Many in the SE got more (some much more) than their average annual snowfall
December has been below normal.
There are storms to track. Yes every model run does not blast everyone, but when does it?
Remember what the last couple Christmas seasons were like in the SE..
Some of you may need to move north to find what you want.
 
I have had 150% of my annual snowfall already. It is soaking wet outside with more rain on the way. Flash Flood watches to my north. You can't just say oh well, it is a La Nina..... If it were that easy you would already know what was going to happen. Of course it appears some folks DO seem to think they know what is going to happen. Then, the next model run happens and they now know what is going to happen. Then............
 
I have had 150% of my annual snowfall already. It is soaking wet outside with more rain on the way. Flash Flood watches to my north. You can't just say oh well, it is a La Nina..... If it were that easy you would already know what was going to happen. Of course it appears some folks DO seem to think they know what is going to happen. Then, the next model run happens and they now know what is going to happen. Then............
dilly dilly.....
 
Doesnt seem like La Nina to me. Its been flooding rain in the south and here in Indiana its been dry as a bone. That is NOT La Nina.
 
12z gefs through next Sunday
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Truthfully it's anyone's guess as to what's going to happen a month from now weather wise but it being a La Nina, the educated guess is for an early spring...just a matter of when it happens...maybe perhaps like 10/11, the early spring doesn't happen until we've covered the most climo favorable period for winter weather in the southeast...
 
Most gefs members are too warm for any system around New Years . But they do show some needed rain ....


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I just hope we can score within the next couple weeks, the retrogression of the Alaskan/NE Pacific ridge due to planetary vorticity advection to northeastern Eurasia will shut off the heightened upward tropospheric wave propagation and momentum deposition onto the polar vortex and thus will lead to a strengthening polar vortex (increasingly +AO/NAO) as we get into mid-late month, barring that this NE Eurasia vortex is a lot stronger than forecast and manages to hold firm... The retrograding ridge will also probably leave lower heights and a trough in its wake over Alaska (+EPO) which could shut-off the cold air transport in about 3 weeks or so from now. It's uncertain whether or not we'll return to a cooler/stormier pattern thereafter near the end of January but its climatologically not favored in a NINA. We honestly should consider ourselves lucky that we've held onto a good pattern this long into January, and managed to squeeze out a huge storm in early December, a majority of NINA years tend to turn ugly before we flip into January (if they haven't done so already)... There are obviously rare exceptions but I wouldn't bank on this year being one of those for now at least...

From Nishii, Nakamura, & Orsolini (2011) "Geographical Dependence Observed in Blocking High Influence on the Stratospheric Variability through Enhancement and Suppression of Upward Planetary-Wave Propagation".
This is a fantastic paper, highly recommend it if you ever get the chance, obviously there's a lot of material that may go over your head but the basic concepts are very interesting and can help deepen your understanding of long range weather forecasting... I bolded the main conclusions of the paper in the abstract below.
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/JCLI-D-10-05021.1

"Previous studies have suggested the importance of blocking high (BH) development for the occurrence of stratospheric sudden warming (SSW), while there is a recent study that failed to identify their statistical linkage. Through composite analysis applied to high-amplitude anticyclonic anomaly events observed around every grid point over the extratropical Northern Hemisphere, the present study reveals a distinct geographical dependence of BH influence on the upward propagation of planetary waves (PWs) into the stratosphere. Tropospheric BHs that develop over the Euro-Atlantic sector tend to enhance upward PW propagation, leading to the warming in the polar stratosphere and, in some cases, to major SSW events. In contrast, the upward PW propagation tends to be suppressed by BHs developing over the western Pacific and the Far East, resulting in the polar stratospheric cooling. This dependence is found to arise mainly from the sensitivity of the interference between the climatological PWs and upward-propagating Rossby wave packets emanating from BHs to their geographical locations. This study also reveals that whether a BH over the eastern Pacific and Alaska can enhance or reduce the upward PW propagation is case dependent. It is suggested that BHs that induce the stratospheric cooling can weaken the statistical relationship between BHs and SSWs "

Shown below is a portion of figure 4 from this paper showing the composite evolution of 30 blocking high events in the North Pacific at 250mb (near the tropopause). Notice, over the course of several weeks, the blocking high which initiates in the Northeastern Pacific & Alaska retrogrades westward towards NE Eurasia (-EPO ridge evolves into a -WPO ridge) (again, this happens due to planetary vorticity advection. What this really means is that the ridge is so large that the coriolis parameter varies a lot across the breadth of the blocking high, ((df/dy) f- coriolis parameter y-latitude) that this causes the wave to advect itself westward against the mean flow so strongly that it's able to overwhelm the mean easterly flow imposed by the mid-latitude jet stream.) Over time this retrograding blocking high strengthens the polar vortex and leads to an increasingly positive Arctic Oscillation because this -WPO ridge becomes superimposed onto the climatological mean elongated trough that encompasses most of northeastern Eurasia. The juxtaposition of this ridge over the mean trough in NE Eurasia reduces upward planetary wave propagation into the stratosphere which is crucial to decelerating the polar night jet that encapsulates the polar vortex and generating high-latitude blocking in the troposphere.

Therefore we can make a few conclusions given these very crucial pieces of information:
1) -EPO ridges tend to evolve into -WPO blocking highs over the course of a few weeks (thus the negative phase of the WPO tends to lag the negative EPO)
2) -WPO blocking highs in Northeastern Eurasia often serve as a precursor to a stronger polar vortex in the weeks that follow. Thus, when you see a very stout -WPO ridge, it's often a big red flag that the AO may become increasingly positive after it develops.

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Here's the evolution of the EPS weeklies for the next few weeks, notice how similar this is to the composite of blocking high events in Nishii, Nakamura, & Orsolini (2011). First, the big -EPO ridge goes up this week, it takes a few weeks to retrograde towards Northeastern Eurasia, results in a -WPO, then the tropospheric polar vortex intensifies after the -WPO develops.

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UKMET was suppressed & generally looked interesting w/ a nice 1040+ high in the upper midwest helping to feed cold air into the SE US. Precipitation lingers longest over the Carolinas as the high continues to press southeastward
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A boring cycle of rain with cold air nearby is much better than a boring cycle of sunny and 70. It is also proof that you can't broadbrush a winter and say "it is a La Nina so....." Can't say it for current. Can't say it for 8-15 days. Can't say it for mid January and beyond. There is potential out there and this for many of us that have already had well beyond a normal amount of annual snowfall.
 
A boring cycle of rain with cold air nearby is much better than a boring cycle of sunny and 70. It is also proof that you can't broadbrush a winter and say "it is a La Nina so....." Can't say it for current. Can't say it for 8-15 days. Can't say it for mid January and beyond. There is potential out there and this for many of us that have already had well beyond a normal amount of annual snowfall.

Did you even read my post or that paper at all? Apparently not.
 
UKMET was suppressed & generally looked interesting w/ a nice 1040+ high in the upper midwest helping to feed cold air into the SE US. Precipitation lingers longest over the Carolinas as the high continues to press southeastward
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Thing is it's nothing but a cold rain look to me so it's a loss for Atlanta, Birmingham, Charolette, into maybe Raleigh. Just can't see the cold air making it in time for all those areas to get a good score verbatim.
 
Looks like the totals for the GEFS mean increased a tick further south.
 
Did you even read my post or that paper at all? Apparently not.
Well, Eric no offense, but we don't know for certain if what you said in that post will even happen just because it has a tendency to do so. Weather is more complex than that in my opinion so for all we know that may not happen. Not being cold bias, I'm just saying.
 
Like I said, when you're talking about really long range, it's educated guesses. The educated guess of an early spring occurring due to La Nina is a really good one but still, it's an educated guess. Sometimes...Mother Nature will do what she will...
 
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