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Tropical Tropical Storm Cindy

Webberweather53

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A broad, elongated area of low pressure in association with the central American monsoon gyre continues to gradually organize over the NW Caribbean, and is marked by several bands moderate-deep Cb convection orientated from north-south which have progressively lifted northward over the past several days in response (in part by) anomalous shear vorticity induced by anomalous near-equatorial low level westerly winds generated by the passage of a CCKW and enhanced easterlies underneath a sprawling mid-upper level ridge over the southwestern Atlantic.

NWP is currently split into 2 primary camps on its future evolution with the GFS/CMC favoring a path into the east-central GOM and the southeastern US as a weakness develops between the Azores-Bermuda high over the SW Atlantic and the Four Corners heat Ridge to the west with an area of low pressure consolidating on the northern end of the wave axis, however the other camp lead by the ECMWF/UKMET supports a solution into Mexico/south Texas with a vortex consolidating near/over the Yucatan and Bay of Campeche.

As I mentioned in another thread, while either solution is physically plausible, more credence may need to be given to the ECMWF/UKMET camp given the differential in friction between the Yucatan and adjacent Gulf of Mexico that localizes low level convergence and curvature vorticity induced by the shape of the Bay of Campeche which favors increased low level relative vorticity Bay of Campeche instead of the Yucatan Channel and eastern Gulf as implored by the GFS/CMC. In cases where tropical cyclogenesis attempts to occur along a broad, meridionally orientated wave axis, relative vorticity tends to be maximized closer to the base of the wave (in this instance further south), therefore also favoring the Yucatan Peninsula and BOC vs the Yucatan Channel and SE Gulf. Additionally, it's known that GFS/CMC are notorious for having "sub-vortex scale convective feedback" issues, thus may be erroneously amplifying the northeastern periphery of the CA Monsoon gyre as well as stretching and handing off the low level relative vorticity to quickly into the mid-latitudes, and NWP also tends have profound biases wrt underestimating mid-level heights which only further bolsters the ECMWF solution of a stronger "ridge-bridge" to the north of this system over the Gulf coast...

Regardless, the steering flow is highly uncertain here considering that this system will be stuck in a "col" characterized by a pair of troughs and ridges oppositely juxtaposed to one another relative to the system of interest, and these steering patterns are often highly unstable/unpredictable, thus caution should be exercised when assessing confidence to one particular solution, in spite of the apparently short verification periods. The NHC has given this system a 70% of tropical cyclogenesis in the next 5 days and residents in/around the NW Caribbean, Greater Antilles, Gulf of Mexico, southeastern US, and Mexico should closely monitor its progress over the next several days as heavy rain, wind, and isolated tornadoes will likely accompany it as it moves northwestward into the Gulf of Mexico over the weekend and early this upcoming week.

Here's a schematic representation of a "col", and although the ridge/trough orientation doesn't seem directly applicable to this instance, if rotated 90 degrees, it's very close to what we'll observe over the coming day or two...
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For those that want real-time GOES 16 satellite data (which updates every 5 minutes) for this disturbance see: https://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/
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Post away!
 

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Wow, what a start to a thread. Nice work Webb. We appreciate everything you do and we all are learning very well from you, along with Storm, SD and Larry.
 
Thanks pcbjr and accu35, I greatly appreciate it. You can see the sub vortex scale convective feedback issues are affecting the ultimate solution in the parallel, with the weakening of the NE flank of the gyre slowing development in the eastern GOM, thus allotting more time to the A-B and southern Rockies/southwestern US subtropical ridges to bridge and effectively close off the weakness to its north. In essence, the GFS seems to be slowly coming around to the ECMWF camp... There's also a non-negligible decrease in the forward speed of 92L in the short range that's worth noting.
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Thanks pcbjr
Of course, my Man! From the heart, FWIW.

As I said in another thread, if/once something develops and there is a COC, then model comparisons/model wars are going to be much more data-based and intriguing. 'Till then, the fun is in the speculation!

Keep the posts coming and I'll toss in a bone or two, if and when there's something to contribute.

Thanks again, Webb!

Phil
 
Thanks pcbjr and accu35, I greatly appreciate it. You can see the sub vortex scale convective feedback issues are affecting the ultimate solution in the parallel, with the weakening of the NE flank of the gyre slowing development in the eastern GOM, thus allotting more time to the A-B and southern Rockies/southwestern US subtropical ridges to bridge and effectively close off the weakness to its north. In essence, the GFS seems to be slowly coming around to the ECMWF camp... There's also a non-negligible decrease in the forward speed of 92L in the short range that's worth noting.
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I agree , you can see it over the last few Gfs runs hell even the Cmc . The weakness is slowly closing off and you can see the " westward " bends in both models . Euro has been hell bent on shunting this baby west and it appears at the moment that the other models are slowly coming around like you said


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12z Gfs ensembles shows exactly what Webber was talking about . Takes 93l north towards the weakness then the ridge closes off and it drifts back to the SW still some spread
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12z euro still likes the southern gulf western track . Wants no part of what the Gfs , gefs and Cmc are showing


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As of 12:30 PM

12z models:

Euro not out yet:

GFS: Weak System/Tropical Storm up into Mobile Bay with most rain well to the east.on Thursday morning.

GFS Parallel: Hurricane into Panama City Tuesday evening. Another area forms in the Bay of Campeche

Navgem: Moves west, weak area of rain in Bay of Campeche.

CMC: Landfall as a strong Tropical Storm near Pensacola Midday Wednesday

Recon mission now scheduled for the area tomorrow.

ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. SUSPECT AREA (NW CARIBBEAN)
FLIGHT ONE -- TEAL 71 FLIGHT TWO -- TEAL 72
A. 18/2000Z A. 19/1130Z,1730Z
B. AFXXX 01AAA INVEST B. AFXXX 0202A CYCLONE
C. 18/1730Z C. 19/0945Z
D. 20.0N 86.5W D. 22.0N 87.5W
E. 18/1930Z TO 18/2330Z E. 19/1100Z TO 19/1730Z
F. SFC TO 10,000 FT F. SFC TO 10,000 FT

2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY:
A. CONTINUE 6-HRLY FIXES IF ABOVE SYSTEM DEVELOPS AND REMAINS
A THREAT.
 
As of 12:30 PM

12z models:

Euro not out yet:

GFS: Weak System/Tropical Storm up into Mobile Bay with most rain well to the east.on Thursday morning.

GFS Parallel: Hurricane into Panama City Tuesday evening. Another area forms in the Bay of Campeche

Navgem: Moves west, weak area of rain in Bay of Campeche.

CMC: Landfall as a strong Tropical Storm near Pensacola Midday Wednesday

Recon mission now scheduled for the area tomorrow.

ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS
1. SUSPECT AREA (NW CARIBBEAN)
FLIGHT ONE -- TEAL 71 FLIGHT TWO -- TEAL 72
A. 18/2000Z A. 19/1130Z,1730Z
B. AFXXX 01AAA INVEST B. AFXXX 0202A CYCLONE
C. 18/1730Z C. 19/0945Z
D. 20.0N 86.5W D. 22.0N 87.5W
E. 18/1930Z TO 18/2330Z E. 19/1100Z TO 19/1730Z
F. SFC TO 10,000 FT F. SFC TO 10,000 FT

2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY:
A. CONTINUE 6-HRLY FIXES IF ABOVE SYSTEM DEVELOPS AND REMAINS
A THREAT.

Euro is out it still likes the SW track


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Euro is out it still likes the SW track


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Thanks for the update!
I'm still trying to find some historic June maps that show tracks to see how many actually did go SW - just intellectual you know what ... Have you got a source?
 
and Basardi from 2 hours ago:

GFS feedback likely doing its dirty work again, I favor euro track on embryonic TC
 
Bottom line - we are a long way out and nothing is even remotely certain at this point. Fun watching, though ... :cool:
 
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