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Learning Global Warming facts and fiction

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Avalanche said:
What should the climate look like, and how do we keep climate from changing? Do you go by historic norms that don't exist? Or try to make it just the way you like it? I'd love to change the climate of NC and make it 80's in the summer with afternoon storms and snow in the winter, but my buddy across the street might hate that. We can't define what it should look like or keep it from changing. When I was a kid there were fears of another ice age. Are we smarter than that now? Yes.
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The notion that there was a scientific consensus of an impending ice age during the 1970s is a total myth. A few scientists legitimately believed this and their comparatively fringe views were blown out of proportion and overstated by the news media at the time (surprise!). There was considerably more agreement about global warming even back then.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bams2370_1.xml
 
SD said:
I wrote 3 papers in college regarding GW and crops/turfgrass yields. I'd actually like to know if I was way off base with my thoughts from 18 years ago. Seriously not being an ass I'm truly curious
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Journals publish papers about grass ? Fascinating ! “ We found that Bermuda Grass is grassier in warmer climates “ Also 18 years ago. Wow . Your papers now the age of a legal adult .

Shane at Parties - Hey , so I heard your having some grass troubles ?
 
Raleigh today is Raleigh yesterday is Raleigh tomorrow is Raleigh 200 years ago is Raleigh 100 years tomorrow .

Fact. I’m still waiting on the apocalyptic doom personally . It’s like investing in MVIS, you keep getting promised some big buyout and tech release but the date for it keeps getting pushed further and further back .
 
Lickwx said:
Journals publish papers about grass ? Fascinating ! “ We found that Bermuda Grass is grassier in warmer climates “ Also 18 years ago. Wow . Your papers now the age of a legal adult .

Shane at Parties - Hey , so I heard your having some grass troubles ?
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Hey I didn't get published these were just the required papers for classes lol. I tried to tie in weather as much as I could to make it doubly enjoyable for myself
 
Will Rossman said:
I must confess that I'm a bit puzzled here. I seriously doubt anyone on this board denies climate change to some extent or other. Most of us would even say that human activities are at least a factor in the warming climate. Here is why many who frequent this weather board are hesitant to go all in on AGW. Too many times in the last few decades, media and government figures have used the data from scientific studies to make dire, immediate predictions of doom and catastrophe. Everytime the predicted date comes and goes and the disaster has failed to fully materialize, the credibility of those purveyors of the agenda look foolish and full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. This does not mean the science is necessarily flawed, but the absolute authority with which the warnings are issued by media and governments, make their failures to happen all the more embarrassing.
The next point I am perplexed about is that if we can assume that manmade global warming is real, and mostly responsible for the current climate variability, what is the common man to do about this? I'm not talking about big corporations and big governments, and changes they can make. I think we can all agree the excessive pollution and disregard for the earth by large companies is truly sad. Most of us laypeople on this site try to do our part to live greener. Indeed, if the recent reports are to be believed, we are already past the point of no return. Would it not be best to admit we have made our sauna and make the best of it at this point? Why are some here more interested in being right and flashing their badges in others' faces than in constructively discussing positive steps forward for civilization? What are some of the benefits of a warm world we can embrace?
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But do the benefits of a warmer climate outweigh the costs of adaptation and environmental + societal pressure it's going to take to get used/adjusted to the ever-increasingly warmer world we've put ourselves in? In most cases, it does not, particularly for vulnerable, poor populations (that means a majority of the world whose pockets are nowhere near as deep as the US or the rest of the developed world). Even in the complete absence of consequential climate change that is almost certainly happening (but at a pace that's too slow for most to see in their own lifetime, but perhaps not their children's), we've done more than enough harm to this planet as is that the way of life we've been living the past few hundred years is simply not sustainable ,and we need to change it sooner rather than later. The change needs to emanate from the top-down, and politicians + large corporations carry the biggest burden for either not taking enough action (for reasons relating to profit) or sensationalizing to spur action, but their ineptitude (whether intentional or not) does not necessarily mean the problem doesn't exist and we shouldn't be concerned about it however.
 
Lickwx said:
Journals publish papers about grass ? Fascinating ! “ We found that Bermuda Grass is grassier in warmer climates “ Also 18 years ago. Wow . Your papers now the age of a legal adult .

Shane at Parties - Hey , so I heard your having some grass troubles ?
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Oh and yes there are journals about turfgrass and no it isn't greener in warm climates. My theory was GW=stronger winter pv or increased mid winter warmups so you get a false spring and early greenup. As that pv broke down the SE would become more susceptible to late season frost/freezes causing economic loss to homeowners and turf grass professionals due to decreased mass on the 2nd green up meaning more cost into replacement, fertilizers, water, pre emergent, herbicides (remember me freaking out in April?). So this meant that the traditional strains of bermuda such as 419 might need to be replaced with the more cold tolerant versions to withstand the potential late season cold.
 
Webberweather53 said:
But do the benefits of a warmer climate outweigh the costs of adaptation and environmental + societal pressure it's going to take to get used/adjusted to the ever-increasingly warmer world we've put ourselves in? In most cases, it does not, particularly for vulnerable, poor populations (that means a majority of the world whose pockets are nowhere near as deep as the US or the rest of the developed world). Even in the complete absence of consequential climate change that is almost certainly happening (but at a pace that's too slow for most to see in their own lifetime, but perhaps not their children's), we've done more than enough harm to this planet as is that the way of life we've been living the past few hundred years is simply not sustainable ,and we need to change it sooner rather than later. The change needs to emanate from the top-down, and politicians + large corporations carry the biggest burden for either not taking enough action (for reasons relating to profit) or sensationalizing to spur action, but their ineptitude (whether intentional or not) does not necessarily mean the problem doesn't exist and we shouldn't be concerned about it however.
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I think people struggle with the degree of concern. All you usually get from the top down entities is lecturing and doomsday talk. Lecturing and exaggeration has permeated politics and media for years and has led to distrust. Add to that the hypocrisy of many of the loudest voices on the topic, and you have a recipe for complacency.

I think most here and many not here agree with you and your side about climate change, to an extent. But I imagine most people feel that they themselves can't impart a lot of impact on the overall climate, and they distrust a government that has frequently lied to them or been wrong about things like this, or even this, previously.
 
Will Rossman said:
I must confess that I'm a bit puzzled here. I seriously doubt anyone on this board denies climate change to some extent or other. Most of us would even say that human activities are at least a factor in the warming climate. Here is why many who frequent this weather board are hesitant to go all in on AGW. Too many times in the last few decades, media and government figures have used the data from scientific studies to make dire, immediate predictions of doom and catastrophe. Everytime the predicted date comes and goes and the disaster has failed to fully materialize, the credibility of those purveyors of the agenda look foolish and full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. This does not mean the science is necessarily flawed, but the absolute authority with which the warnings are issued by media and governments, make their failures to happen all the more embarrassing.
The next point I am perplexed about is that if we can assume that manmade global warming is real, and mostly responsible for the current climate variability, what is the common man to do about this? I'm not talking about big corporations and big governments, and changes they can make. I think we can all agree the excessive pollution and disregard for the earth by large companies is truly sad. Most of us laypeople on this site try to do our part to live greener. Indeed, if the recent reports are to be believed, we are already past the point of no return. Would it not be best to admit we have made our sauna and make the best of it at this point? Why are some here more interested in being right and flashing their badges in others' faces than in constructively discussing positive steps forward for civilization? What are some of the benefits of a warm world we can embrace?
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Correct, even the harshest of deniers (me) actually believe we are in a warmer climate currently, and billions of humans upon this great planet probably have some bearing on that. But totally agree that it's difficult to trust the source of any great science data because so much, almost all of it, is done through political prism now, whether intentionally or not. Yeah you can only cry wolf so many times before many will start to doubt there's a wolf to even fear.

Also, if we aren't beyond the point of return, unless you get China and Russia to get on board, sorry the efforts of others is almost futile. And if you really press them to make changes such as what is being proposed in new green legislation here, then you will most likely head down a path of destruction that will cause more harm then our current climate crisis.

You know what I would love to see more than anything, the average individual actually clean up their own messes, seriously. Conserve energy where they can, recycle, how about pick up their trash, has anyone seen the side of our highways lately? Parking lots? There's diapers, mask, food, bags, tvs, tires, debris of all kind, have you ever seen the streets after some of these protest (I'll not open that up in here lol)
I'm rambling but I agree with your post lol
Stormdoc said:
It seems this thread has become somewhat of a generational battle here. As an over 50 individual I can say that I am in the camp who takes climate change very seriously and it is a great concern, especially with someone who has children and is concerned about their future. I do not think that generational differences here should matter at all, we all share the same climate. The last few pages are a microcosm of the whole issue and the political climate, along with other debates these days that makes it hard not to be depressed and cynical that the human race can figure out how to approach our big problems. It has more to do with our communication skills and that differences of opinion become more of an ego battle than actually discussing these issues with thought and empathy. This needs to be taught in our schools just as much as learning and interpreting scientific data. With social media, it has become more trash talking and insults than actual productive dialogue.
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Somewhat generational, I'll agree with this (I just turned 50 @Lickwx will be glad to know someone on here is older than I). Maybe because when I was kid we were taught self accountability, didn't rely on government to tell us how to do that, were taught to respect others, respect property and the land. But you hit the proverbial nail on the head with two words, political climate. Unfortunately, every aspect of our lives is seen through political glasses creating mistrust, misguided ideas and division.


**These post are truly great points and articulated in a respectful, civil manner that almost demands attention, thank you both.
 
SD said:
Oh and yes there are journals about turfgrass and no it isn't greener in warm climates. My theory was GW=stronger winter pv or increased mid winter warmups so you get a false spring and early greenup. As that pv broke down the SE would become more susceptible to late season frost/freezes causing economic loss to homeowners and turf grass professionals due to decreased mass on the 2nd green up meaning more cost into replacement, fertilizers, water, pre emergent, herbicides (remember me freaking out in April?). So this meant that the traditional strains of bermuda such as 419 might need to be replaced with the more cold tolerant versions to withstand the potential late season cold.
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And that is exactly what happens lately.
 
metwannabe said:
Correct, even the harshest of deniers (me) actually believe we are in a warmer climate currently, and billions of humans upon this great planet probably have some bearing on that. But totally agree that it's difficult to trust the source of any great science data because so much, almost all of it, is done through political prism now, whether intentionally or not. Yeah you can only cry wolf so many times before many will start to doubt there's a wolf to even fear.

Also, if we aren't beyond the point of return, unless you get China and Russia to get on board, sorry the efforts of others is almost futile. And if you really press them to make changes such as what is being proposed in new green legislation here, then you will most likely head down a path of destruction that will cause more harm then our current climate crisis.

You know what I would love to see more than anything, the average individual actually clean up their own messes, seriously. Conserve energy where they can, recycle, how about pick up their trash, has anyone seen the side of our highways lately? Parking lots? There's diapers, mask, food, bags, tvs, tires, debris of all kind, have you ever seen the streets after some of these protest (I'll not open that up in here lol)
I'm rambling but I agree with your post lol

Somewhat generational, I'll agree with this (I just turned 50 @Lickwx will be glad to know someone on here is older than I). Maybe because when I was kid we were taught self accountability, didn't rely on government to tell us how to do that, were taught to respect others, respect property and the land. But you hit the proverbial nail on the head with two words, political climate. Unfortunately, every aspect of our lives is seen through political glasses creating mistrust, misguided ideas and division.


**These post are truly great points and articulated in a respectful, civil manner that almost demands attention, thank you both.
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Glad to know I’m not the only old geezer here ?. I bet you remember the commercial back in the 70s with the Native American looking out over the trashed landscape, with a single tear running down his cheek? That was back when accountability with our environment and how we treat it was starting to grow. I think we can all be more accountable and teach it to our children, at the same time also making sure we have our elected officials hold some accountability as well.
 
Stormdoc said:
Glad to know I’m not the only old geezer here ?. I bet you remember the commercial back in the 70s with the Native American looking out over the trashed landscape, with a single tear running down his cheek? That was back when accountability with our environment and how we treat it was starting to grow. I think we can all be more accountable and teach it to our children, at the same time also making sure we have our elected officials hold some accountability as well.
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Yeah, I know I'm going in a different direction here but the amount trash littering our landscape today is sickening. That is one thing I have definitely taught my kids, by example, they have never seen me throw as much as a piece of gum out my vehicle window. And even heard me, umm scold my wife when she was about to do it lol. Selfishness, lack of respect for others, other's property and lack of self accountability (I'd say moral decay but wrong thread I know) lead to so many problems.
 
metwannabe said:
Yeah, I know I'm going in a different direction here but the amount trash littering our landscape today is sickening. That is one thing I have definitely taught my kids, by example, they have never seen me throw as much as a piece of gum out my vehicle window. And even heard me, umm scold my wife when she was about to do it lol. Selfishness, lack of respect for others, other's property and lack of self accountability (I'd say moral decay but wrong thread I know) lead to so many problems.
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Totally agree. I just don't get it. Every single place you go has a trash can. You can't wait 5 seconds to throw your McDonald's bag in the trash, rather than out the window?
 
Rain Cold said:
Totally agree. I just don't get it. Every single place you go has a trash can. You can't wait 5 seconds to throw your McDonald's bag in the trash, rather than out the window?
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Too bad talking about trash cans don't make any money.
 
The infusion of politics and the absolutism of the supposed 'knowers' has not helped with any climate change awareness. Add to that the constant re-wording of our English language to describe things. In the realm of climate study why did we move from "global warming" to "climate change"? Was that some political slight-of-hand way of saying-"that's too harsh and our message will not resonate"--If so I'm insulted by that elitist attitude.

Secondly, yes as a child of the 70s the messages back then of waste-not want-not for energy consumption and the anti-pollution messages were spot on and for the most part very apolitical.

Speaking of politics. The biggest malcontent contributors here are Russia, China and India. However not if some impish teen is to be believed.-also an insult to my intelligence but that's another story. With respect to the US/Europe vs China/Russia/India it is the equivalent of me burning wood in my fireplace a couple times a week while my neighbor consistently burns a pile of rubber tires in his backyard. Please do not come over to my house and tell me I cannot have a wood burning masonry fireplace but seemingly ignore the tire burner neighbor or ask them to burn one less tire a week.

Finally with respect to China/Russia/India they have to ensure their populations are housed and fed otherwise there would be real problems so the expectation they make drastic green changes (as pointed out by another post here somewhere) would create real-time now problems for themselves. All of us should endeavor to make changes as best we can without disrupting the local/state/national/international economic and social systems though without the spark producing gear grinding. Look at what COVID has done.

The sometimes controversial Jordan Peterson answers a question on climate change here and it's priority in global importance rather soberly and precisely to those who think it's our biggest problem in the world.

 
CaryWx said:
The infusion of politics and the absolutism of the supposed 'knowers' has not helped with any climate change awareness. Add to that the constant re-wording of our English language to describe things. In the realm of climate study why did we move from "global warming" to "climate change"? Was that some political slight-of-hand way of saying-"that's too harsh and our message will not resonate"--If so I'm insulted by that elitist attitude.

Secondly, yes as a child of the 70s the messages back then of waste-not want-not for energy consumption and the anti-pollution messages were spot on and for the most part very apolitical.

Speaking of politics. The biggest malcontent contributors here are Russia, China and India. However not if some impish teen is to be believed.-also an insult to my intelligence but that's another story. With respect to the US/Europe vs China/Russia/India it is the equivalent of me burning wood in my fireplace a couple times a week while my neighbor consistently burns a pile of rubber tires in his backyard. Please do not come over to my house and tell me I cannot have a wood burning masonry fireplace but seemingly ignore the tire burner neighbor or ask them to burn one less tire a week.

Finally with respect to China/Russia/India they have to ensure their populations are housed and fed otherwise there would be real problems so the expectation they make drastic green changes (as pointed out by another post here somewhere) would create real-time now problems for themselves. All of us should endeavor to make changes as best we can without disrupting the local/state/national/international economic and social systems though without the spark producing gear grinding. Look at what COVID has done.

The sometimes controversial Jordan Peterson answers a question on climate change here and it's priority in global importance rather soberly and precisely to those who think it's our biggest problem in the world.

Click to expand...


The shift to the term climate change was needed because scientists realized global warming is only one symptom of climate change.
 
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