Misc All Things Religious

[Sandbar]

I see your laughing emoji response to my comment about the brokenness of the world and Cain and Abel. I suppose you find that humorous. But, that's not a particularly good look and smacks of arrogance.

Look- I don't pretend to have all the answers. Why does God allow evil in this world? It appears He has created beings in the heavenly and earthly realms with the capability of doing good but also not. Sentient beings in this universe are allowed to make choices. And, God doesn't force all creation to follow His will. The Creator has granted beings the ability of will and choice. Why does He allow it all to continue on? Some things we may not ever know on this side of eternity. He desires His beings return to Him willingly.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

If every being in heaven and on earth followed God's will and didn't seek glory of self, destruction, and chaos, I suspect it would all be "fixed." But, that just isn't now the universe works. And, no scheme or alternate "spiritual awakening" you or anyone else can contrive will resolve it either.

Well it appears to me that you and I don't have much else to converse about then. I'm not here to change minds or push people in another direction only to tell you what I have experienced and despite what some of you have been told it's not your job to do that to others. If I did I am no different than the evil entities I am here discussing. If you are happy on your path then good for you. I wasn't, I explained why and it drives some of you bonkers when it shouldn't. All you are really doing here is engaging in confirmation bias of your own faith. I spent 40+ years sitting in the pews. I have walked your path so I have all the evidence I need to make my own personal judgement. Have you walked mine?

 

[Sandbar]

That is a whole lot of words that still tells me nothing about where you actually stand on things and where you get your reasoning. For instance I’m supposed to be under the control of the Vatican, yet your worldview supposedly come from a drug. Now I’m thankful whatever treatment saved your life though. Yes, there are plenty of near death experiences and some who claimed to see after death. What makes one who had a reincarnation death experience more true than someone who say went to heaven and came back? Or someone who had a “life review” or someone who claims the actually went to a literal burning hell and then were brought back? I don’t necessarily believe in near death experiences so that is where I stand on that.

What is love and hate, but chemicals in the brain?

Why don't you just simply ask me the basic question you want to ask without me having to sift through the fishing and trapping you are trying to do.

 

[Arcc]

Why don't you just simply ask me the basic question you want to ask without me having to sift through the fishing and trapping you are trying to do.

Haha, I stopped trying to trap people in arguments years ago. It doesn’t work. I’m actually trying to reason to what you really believe, because so far I really don’t know besides Christianity is evil because it kills people and everything else is orange jello.

 

[Sandbar]

Haha, I stopped trying to trap people in arguments years ago. It doesn’t work. I’m actually trying to reason to what you really believe, because so far I really don’t know besides Christianity is evil because it kills people and everything else is orange jello.

I have already told you what I believe multiple times and of course you have told me many times you don't buy it. If you need a specific answer to a specific question by all means ask it but you have already told me I am wrong so why do you feel the need to do it over and over again?

 

[Arcc]

I have already told you what I believe multiple times and of course you have told me many times you don't buy it. If you need a specific answer to a specific question by all means ask it but you have already told me I am wrong so why do you feel the need to do it over and over again?

I’ve already asked specific questions, your main gripe against God and the Bible was because God says he would judge and destroy those against him, yet when asked you moved from all killing is evil, to some violence is necessary because people are evil. If people are evil, and God judges what is right, then he is not wrong to judge evil.

Now if you believe you are God and can rightly determine right or wrong, that would make logical sense and this conversation would be over. But trying to understand around squishy logic is really interesting. Because if you are right and there is no God to judge and we all get reincarnated, then we are really just wasting time. Me with you and you with me because in the end all this is pointless anyways. It’s kind of like the goofy evolutionists who tell me there is no God nor absolute truth and we all just disappear when we die, yet then try to shame me for not saving the planet or some dumb endangered animal.

 

[thundersnow]

Well it appears to me that you and I don't have much else to converse about then. I'm not here to change minds or push people in another direction only to tell you what I have experienced and despite what some of you have been told it's not your job to do that to others. If I did I am no different than the evil entities I am here discussing. If you are happy on your path then good for you. I wasn't, I explained why and it drives some of you bonkers when it shouldn't. All you are really doing here is engaging in confirmation bias of your own faith. I spent 40+ years sitting in the pews. I have walked your path so I have all the evidence I need to make my own personal judgement. Have you walked mine?

If you had only come here to give insight on the trauma of combat veterans and the effect that has had on their (your) faith, and that's all it was, that would be one thing. And, I can't touch that. If organized Christianity failed to bring you through this... then, okay. I have not been through what you have been through. I respect your service, and I have no issue with your giving this insight about what going through this was like. I do not judge you for the crisis of faith that came as a result of these life experiences. I can't say really anything about your journey, recovery, or what have you. That story is yours to tell. And, I appreciate and respect that for what it is.

The issue I have is when blatant misinformation or mischaracterization occurs that is aimed at somewhere else in order to further justify your decision to leave organized Christianity. You can't expect people to not speak up when you say things that just aren't accurate, especially when they are disparaging. It's comments along the lines of all Christians are slaves to the Vatican, or the Bible was created by evil organizations, or what have you... you just can't expect those of us who believe that these allegations are unfair and inaccurate... to just sit by and let it happen.

Surely, you can understand that much, "confirmation bias" notwithstanding.

 

[Sandbar]

I’ve already asked specific questions, your main gripe against God and the Bible was because God says he would judge and destroy those against him, yet when asked you moved from all killing is evil, to some violence is necessary because people are evil. If people are evil, and God judges what is right, then he is not wrong to judge evil.

Now if you believe you are God and can rightly determine right or wrong, that would make logical sense and this conversation would be over. But trying to understand around squishy logic is really interesting. Because if you are right and there is no God to judge and we all get reincarnated, then we are really just wasting time. Me with you and you with me because in the end all this is pointless anyways. It’s kind of like the goofy evolutionists who tell me there is no God nor absolute truth and we all just disappear when we die, yet then try to shame me for not saving the planet or some dumb endangered animal.

I believe in non-duality. The Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism would be a good example of this although I do not prescribe to any specific dogma surrounding my belief.

 

[Sandbar]

If you had only come here to give insight on the trauma of combat veterans and the effect that has had on their (your) faith, and that's all it was, that would be one thing. And, I can't touch that. If organized Christianity failed to bring you through this... then, okay. I have not been through what you have been through. I respect your service, and I have no issue with your giving this insight about what going through this was like. I do not judge you for the crisis of faith that came as a result of these life experiences. I can't say really anything about your journey, recovery, or what have you. That story is yours to tell. And, I appreciate and respect that for what it is.

The issue I have is when blatant misinformation or mischaracterization occurs that is aimed at somewhere else in order to further justify your decision to leave organized Christianity. You can't expect people to not speak up when you say things that just aren't accurate, especially when they are disparaging. It's comments along the lines of all Christians are slaves to the Vatican, or the Bible was created by evil organizations, or what have you... you just can't expect those of us who believe that these allegations are unfair and inaccurate... to just sit by and let it happen.

Surely, you can understand that much, "confirmation bias" notwithstanding.

Ok why are you accurate and I am not? Why am I getting misinformation but you aren't? Because the bible said so and it's the divine word of god? According to who?

 

[thundersnow]

Ok why are you accurate and I am not? Why am I getting misinformation but you aren't? Because the bible said so and it's the divine word of god? According to who?

Let's avoid the ad hominem of whether "you" or "I" are "accurate" or not. Let's stick with specific issues and statements and not focus on who said what. If something (regardless of who says it) is not accurate, then that thing is what needs to be looked at, not "why are you accurate but not me?" That then becomes not a "me versus you" issue but an examination of the statement(s) on their own merit.

Now, there are a number of things that have been said here. As a results there are a bunch of tangents that we could endlessly go on about.

But, I'll just scroll up to look at a few things said. For example, this was said:

"I don't know any of you but the Vatican is pure evil and they control Christianity."

How does the Vatican "control" Christianity exactly? You do realize that there are traditions of Christianity that have no history through the Vatican? The Vatican does not affect what they do today. They don't answer to the Vatican. This is the type of statement that is inaccurate.

Let's just start with that.

 

[Sandbar]

Let's avoid the ad hominem of whether "you" or "I" are "accurate" or not. Let's stick with specific issues and statements and not focus on who said what. If something (regardless of who says it) is not accurate, then that thing is what needs to be looked at, not "why are you accurate but not me?" That then becomes not a "me versus you" issue but an examination of the statement(s) on their own merit.

Now, there are a number of things that have been said here. As a results there are a bunch of tangents that we could endlessly go on about.

But, I'll just scroll up to look at a few things said. For example, this was said:

"I don't know any of you but the Vatican is pure evil and they control Christianity."

How does the Vatican "control" Christianity exactly? You do realize that there are traditions of Christianity that have no history through the Vatican? The Vatican does not affect what they do today. They don't answer to the Vatican. This is the type of statement that is inaccurate.

Let's just start with that.

The influence today is a moot point. The Catholic church controlled what was to become biblical canon, the biblical canon you follow today came directly from the people responsible for murdering tens of millions of non- believers and those they deemed blasphemous and practicing heresey. The ONLY thing you have proof of other than your blind faith is what they made available for you to believe. There are many biblical scholars who have picked through the book to find changes, mis translation, translation errors. I have already shown you that Krishna was Jesus 3000 years before Jesus was Jesus. How do you explain this? Just coincidence?

 

[thundersnow]

The influence today is a moot point. The Catholic church controlled what was to become biblical canon, the biblical canon you follow today came directly from the people responsible for murdering tens of millions of non- believers and those they deemed blasphemous and practicing heresey. The ONLY thing you have proof of other than your blind faith is what they made available for you to believe. There are many biblical scholars who have picked through the book to find changes, mis translation, translation errors. I have already shown you that Krishna was Jesus 3000 years before Jesus was Jesus. How do you explain this? Just coincidence?

No, you're still missing what I am saying.

I'm not just referring to influence today.

There are Christian traditions today that were never under control of the Vatican at any point in their history. Get that straight. The Eastern Orthodox traditions such as the Coptics, Ethiopian, and Greek Orthodox Churches were never under the authority of the Vatican. They would think the idea quite silly that the Vatican determined what their Scriptures look like.

I'm not chasing after other issues yet (regarding Krishna, or whatever... nor am I going to be distracted by antagonistic commentary about "blind faith" or who or what murdered tens of millions of whoever). You obviously have talking points you're going to continue to repeat, I suppose.

What we're going to do first here is drive home the point that the Vatican did not "control" what has been in the Biblical canon across all of Christianity. We will discuss the factuality of claims being made.

 

[Sandbar]

No, you're still missing what I am saying.

I'm not just referring to influence today.

There are Christian traditions today that were never under control of the Vatican at any point in their history. Get that straight. Some of the Eastern Orthodox traditions such as the Coptics, Ethiopian, and Greek Orthodox Churches were never under the authority of the Vatican. They would think the idea quite silly that the Vatican determined what their Scriptures look like.

I'm not chasing after other issues yet (regarding Krishna, or whatever... nor am I going to be troubled by antagonistic commentary about "blind faith" or who or what murdered tens of millions of whoever). You obviously have talking points you're going to continue to repeat, I suppose.

What we're going to do first here is drive home the point that the Vatican did not "control" what has been in the Biblical canon across all of Christianity. We will discuss the factuality of claims being made.

Sorry but you don't get to control what I discuss. You can choose to ignore every word I say or me in general but not what I discuss. I'm showing you what I researched with an open mind and my own personal conclusions. If you feel attacked or feel your religion is attacked that's a you problem. The fact that you have 4 religions with multiple denominations and multiple books with some of this and that removed and tweaked here and there tells me all I really need to know. Much easier and clearer to throw it all out and go with a direct connection to the source of creation